Fook United Airlines

[Aloha_Shooter]

Simple solution: Require carriers to keep say, 3 percent, of seats open on any particular flight for standby passengers and crew deadheads. Allow them to raise the ticket prices by exactly the same percentage.

"Allow"? What, you want to reinstitute regulation? I know a lot of Democrats do and frankly the major airlines probably wouldn't mind -- they were making money hand-over-fist before deregulation and didn't have to worry about competing with low-fare airlines. Want that $300-400 cheap trip to Chicago or Atlanta or Orlando? Good luck with that. Airfares in the 1970s were generally more expensive than today and that's not counting the difference caused by comparing 1970s dollars to 2010s dollars. Airlines are making money today but no one is counting that against the years of bleeding they suffered as they learned to adapt to the modern market.

The REAL simple solution was for Dr. Dao to comply with the request then demand an alternate flight on a competing airline that got him home that night. One of his proponents claimed on the talk shows that there were seats on another airline (although they had suggested putting the crew on that flight, it makes more sense for the airline to keep their crew in their system and pay to fulfill their contract of carriage even if it required use of another airline.

[Fmedges]

"Allow"? What, you want to reinstitute regulation? I know a lot of Democrats do and frankly the major airlines probably wouldn't mind -- they were making money hand-over-fist before deregulation and didn't have to worry about competing with low-fare airlines. Want that $300-400 cheap trip to Chicago or Atlanta or Orlando? Good luck with that. Airfares in the 1970s were generally more expensive than today and that's not counting the difference caused by comparing 1970s dollars to 2010s dollars. Airlines are making money today but no one is counting that against the years of bleeding they suffered as they learned to adapt to the modern market.

The REAL simple solution was for Dr. Dao to comply with the request then demand an alternate flight on a competing airline that got him home that night. One of his proponents claimed on the talk shows that there were seats on another airline (although they had suggested putting the crew on that flight, it makes more sense for the airline to keep their crew in their system and pay to fulfill their contract of carriage even if it required use of another airline.

Demand huh? Both myself and my co worker were stranded (not together) recently due to the Delta airlines lack of crew available and I couldn't even get them to let me sleep in the terminal let alone demand anything. All both he and I were told to go pound sand. How exactly was he going to demand to get on another carriers flight?

[Aloha_Shooter]

Demand huh? Both myself and my co worker were stranded (not together) recently due to the Delta airlines lack of crew available and I couldn't even get them to let me sleep in the terminal let alone demand anything. All both he and I were told to go pound sand. How exactly was he going to demand to get on another carriers flight?

https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights

Involuntary Bumping

DOT requires each airline to give all passengers who are bumped involuntarily a written statement describing their rights and explaining how the carrier decides who gets on an oversold flight and who doesn't. Those travelers who don't get to fly are frequently entitled to denied boarding compensation in the form of a check or cash. The amount depends on the price of their ticket and the length of the delay:

If you are bumped involuntarily and the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to get you to your final destination (including later connections) within one hour of your original scheduled arrival time, there is no compensation.
If the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to arrive at your destination between one and two hours after your original arrival time (between one and four hours on international flights), the airline must pay you an amount equal to 200% of your one-way fare to your final destination that day, with a $675 maximum.
If the substitute transportation is scheduled to get you to your destination more than two hours later (four hours internationally), or if the airline does not make any substitute travel arrangements for you, the compensation doubles (400% of your one-way fare, $1350 maximum).

If the airline must substitute a smaller plane for the one it originally planned to use, the carrier isn't required to pay people who are bumped as a result. In addition, on flights using aircraft with 30 through 60 passenger seats, compensation is not required if you were bumped due to safety-related aircraft weight or balance constraints.

I had thought there was something added in recently passed legislation requiring them to put you on an alternate carrier if they couldn't get you out within some timeframe but can't locate it and maybe the expanded compensation is supposed to address that. Either way, telling them "you'll have to carry me out" was stupid.

Having said that, I'm on my way to the airport for a United flight.

[Fmedges]

https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights





I had thought there was something added in recently passed legislation requiring them to put you on an alternate carrier if they couldn't get you out within some timeframe but can't locate it and maybe the expanded compensation is supposed to address that. Either way, telling them "you'll have to carry me out" was stupid.

Having said that, I'm on my way to the airport for a United flight.

This only applies to being "bumped". There are no protections for flights being cancelled. My own opinion is that their is no difference between being involuntarily bumped and cancelled (due to non weather events), but the laws don't make that distinction. My flight was cancelled because the flight crew scheduled for that flight was over their accumulated flight hours. I was told to come back the next day and that they didn't care that I had to purchase extra meals and lodging for the night (as I said they wouldn't even let me stay in the terminal). If you as a company decide to play the odds as far as overbooking, over scheduling etc to benefit you then I have no sympathy for you in the event that it bites you in the ass.

[Martinjmpr]

This only applies to being "bumped". There are no protections for flights being cancelled. My own opinion is that their is no difference between being involuntarily bumped and cancelled (due to non weather events), but the laws don't make that distinction. .

Yep, and think about what kind of incentives this gives airlines.

Let's see - try to "bump" passengers, have to shell out $$ and risk a social-media event that generates enormous bad PR,

OR

Cancel the whole flight and say "sorry, flight was cancelled due to safety considerations, have a nice day, sorry if you have a connecting flight you'll now miss, I guess it sucks to be you."

So maybe instead of more expensive tickets, as a result of this incident what we'll see instead is simply more cancelled flights.

Way to go, Dr. Dumbass.

[Gman]

So maybe instead of more expensive tickets, as a result of this incident what we'll see instead is simply more cancelled flights.

When they stop delivering consistent services, people stop purchasing their services. Company goes out of business. It's the nature of business.

[Martinjmpr]

When they stop delivering consistent services, people stop purchasing their services. Company goes out of business. It's the nature of business.

Except that the other airlines are watching and since they all have the same incentive to reduce costs, any action taken by one airline to reduce costs is likely to be copied by other airlines, which means you'll be choosing between two flavors of a shit sandwich.

For most casual travelers, cost is the overriding factor that determines which airline they fly on. Long after we've moved onto the next Outrage Of The Week, people will be booking their tickets and saying "well, this flight is $15 less" and that's the one they'll book.

[bellavite1]

This only applies to being "bumped". There are no protections for flights being cancelled. My own opinion is that their is no difference between being involuntarily bumped and cancelled (due to non weather events), but the laws don't make that distinction. My flight was cancelled because the flight crew scheduled for that flight was over their accumulated flight hours. I was told to come back the next day and that they didn't care that I had to purchase extra meals and lodging for the night (as I said they wouldn't even let me stay in the terminal). If you as a company decide to play the odds as far as overbooking, over scheduling etc to benefit you then I have no sympathy for you in the event that it bites you in the ass.

Happened to me a few years ago on my way to Italy.
I missed my father 's funeral because of it.
Fuck them.

[Aloha_Shooter]

This only applies to being "bumped". There are no protections for flights being cancelled. My own opinion is that their is no difference between being involuntarily bumped and cancelled (due to non weather events), but the laws don't make that distinction.

I quoted the sections relevant the topic at hand which was someone who was involuntarily deboarded but if you had bothered to go to the link I provided, you'd have seen they have a whole section on delayed and canceled flights. Specifically regarding canceled flights, the DOT says

If your flight is canceled, most airlines will rebook you on their first flight to your destination on which space is available, at no additional charge. If this involves a significant delay, find out if another carrier has space and ask the first airline if they will endorse your ticket to the other carrier. Finding extra seats may be difficult, however, especially over holidays and other peak travel times.

Each airline has its own policies about what it will do for delayed passengers waiting at the airport; there are no federal requirements. If you are delayed, ask the airline staff if it will pay for meals or a phone call. Some airlines, often those charging very low fares, do not provide any amenities to stranded passengers. Others may not offer amenities if the delay is caused by bad weather or something else beyond the airline's control. Contrary to popular belief, for domestic itineraries airlines are not required to compensate passengers whose flights are delayed or canceled. As discussed in the chapter on overbooking, compensation is required by law on domestic trips only when you are "bumped" from a flight that is oversold.

If the purpose of your trip is to close a potentially lucrative business deal, give a speech or lecture, attend a family function, or connect to a cruise, you might want to allow a little extra leeway and take an earlier flight. In other words, airline delays aren't unusual, and defensive planning is a good idea when time is your most important consideration.

My flight was cancelled because the flight crew scheduled for that flight was over their accumulated flight hours. I was told to come back the next day and that they didn't care that I had to purchase extra meals and lodging for the night (as I said they wouldn't even let me stay in the terminal). If you as a company decide to play the odds as far as overbooking, over scheduling etc to benefit you then I have no sympathy for you in the event that it bites you in the ass.

The cap on accumulated flight hours is a safety measure dictated by the DOT. I tend to like my pilot and even flight attendants to not be overtired. I've been bitten by that before, usually caused by weather or mechanical delays that push the crew past the allowed hours. I generally plan my travel so I have some margin at the start -- if you as a traveler decide the play the odds as far as scheduling and possible flight delays or cancellations then I have no sympathy for you in the event that it bites you in the ass.

[CS1983]

"Allow"? What, you want to reinstitute regulation? I know a lot of Democrats do and frankly the major airlines probably wouldn't mind -- they were making money hand-over-fist before deregulation and didn't have to worry about competing with low-fare airlines. Want that $300-400 cheap trip to Chicago or Atlanta or Orlando? Good luck with that. Airfares in the 1970s were generally more expensive than today and that's not counting the difference caused by comparing 1970s dollars to 2010s dollars. Airlines are making money today but no one is counting that against the years of bleeding they suffered as they learned to adapt to the modern market.

The REAL simple solution was for Dr. Dao to comply with the request then demand an alternate flight on a competing airline that got him home that night. One of his proponents claimed on the talk shows that there were seats on another airline (although they had suggested putting the crew on that flight, it makes more sense for the airline to keep their crew in their system and pay to fulfill their contract of carriage even if it required use of another airline.

Comply and Demand, the new interaction between businesses and their customers. LOL.

Once a person complies, they have no bargaining leverage with which to demand.