Quote Originally Posted by Gman View Post
This is what I notice as well, and along those lines, most people in our society have policed ourselves but that is changing;
I think that's been posted before and it makes a lot of sense.

I always challenged atheists... If I'm wrong, I'll I've done is tried to hold myself to an objective standard. OTOH, look at what moral relativism has won us. Suddenly the "sky wizard" ain't so bad.


Quote Originally Posted by foxtrot View Post
Sort of, but sort of not. The narcissism face of Cluster-B generally wants worshiped for doing nothing and they lie, manipulate, cheat and steal to do it. Sure, some can be competitive (there are plenty of lazy ones), but they rarely care about actually being the best. Narcissism just = worship.

[snip]
That's the key.

There is nothing wrong with being self-interested, wanting to be good at something, or wanting to be successful in general. When I go to work, I work hard to be successful and that is a put off for a lot of people these days (for multiple reasons) but it's because I expect the reward and thus work to get it.

I have been told this is narcissism by actual narcissists.

I wouldn't take something I'm not entitled to nor would I manipulate someone into giving it to me. I will insist on having what I've earned.