Shooting in Thornton at Walmart?

[Justin]

douchebags gonna douche.

[MrPrena]

I assume Thornton got much better dealing armed citizen after Cinnabarre Theater incident.

This will send message to bad guys that armed citizen are everywhere in thornton.

[ray1970]

So, any reports yet of WHY this douchebag did this?

I heard media reports that he was racist and hated Mexicans. So says the media so take that for what it’s worth.

If he was targeting our Spanish speaking brothers or he certainly picked the right Walmart.

[OneGuy67]

The problem was not knowing who a shooter was and coming up with armed citizens in the process and going through the process it takes for several officers to stop, detain, and find out who this person was during the initial response. No one knew who the shooter was or where he had gone at the time, hence delaying a search of the actual suspect. That is what they are saying.

No the investigation was delayed because they were trying to clear the building and area. No one knew where the shooter actually was so an investigation can't really start until the scene is safe. Nothing like reviewing video and getting blasted by the bad guy to make a bunch of people that have no idea how this works happy. No two witnesses ever tell the same story.

And the media has been doing their best to make TPD look like a bunch of assholes from the start.

To elaborate on what Kev said, when you have several hundred people that are all in a heightened state of emotions, and you are one of the first officers there and are trying to ascertain who the shooter is, what they are wearing and you have other officers making entry into a very large building, and you have people who saw and heard different things, it is confusing. Now add that some of the witnesses say they saw this person or that person who also had a weapon and it creates inaccurate information in the beginning that needs to be vetted out. You may have had only one suspect who shot, but there may be others who are part of the criminal act who may have changed their mind or were doing something else.

The security room in which the video is located at isn't accessible by law enforcement alone. They would need to find in the mass of people someone who has access to the room and access to the video. Again, more time and you sure as hell aren't going to take a civilian into a building that hasn't been cleared.

It is obvious that Thornton PD had never trained or planned for a contingency where they would encounter or have to process multiple armed citizens post-event, and are actively using said citizens as a scapegoat for bumbling the initial investigation.

Were there no:

- cameras looking directly at the shooting scene that could immediately reviewed? This was the checkout area, not the antifreeze and oil aisle.

- witness discriptions of the person doing the ACTUAL shooting?

- contemplation that the guy waiting around after the event with a personal weapon is probably NOT your suspect?

Sorry- Usually I am pretty loathe to criticize law enforcement, but this just smells and the media is lapping it up.

Given that there is no ongoing gunfire or confirmed threat, a group of armed LEO can't specifically​ secure the video room and begin reviewing tape until the ENTIRE crime scene location has be secured? That sounds like a page from the pre-Columbine tactics book of combat ineffectiveness.

You think the media is trying make TPD look bad? That's nothing compared to their smear campaign against the armed citizens.

Most agencies do not actively train on scenarios in which there would be multiple CCW people in it. The topic will be discussed at agencies now, I'm sure.

The initial response was not "bungled" at all. The PD handled it in as well of a manner, given the event, circumstances, known information and manpower as that of any other agency. The investigation flowed smoothly. The PD quickly asked for assistance from a number of agencies and utilized that assistance in a judicious manner. The suspect was identified by PD people and assets were deployed. Tips came in all night long and LE responded to each of them. A lot of people were interviewed, search warrants were written and executed and family members of victims had to be notified and consoled.

The information provided that led to identifying the suspect and where it came from, I am not going to comment on. The PD briefed both assisting agencies and the public as quickly as possible. You can't make the assumption the suspect would flee or stay in any event. An example of that is the suspect who attempted to blow up the Netherland PD. He was across the street and was evacuated out of the area by law enforcement before they realized he was the suspect. Holmes was in no hurry to leave after shooting up the theater.

From a review of topics you have started on COAR and statements you have made, it is obvious you are an avid supporter of CCW and appear to be very defensive of any statement that might be considered negative to that activity. The members here on COAR do seem eager at times to Monday night quarterback law enforcement and have done so on many occasions and have caused a number of law enforcement members to stop posting and coming here. There are two people on COAR who responded to this event Wednesday night. For you to say they "bungled the initial investigation" is disingenuous, insulting and not based on the facts.

[theGinsue]

To elaborate on what Kev said, when you have several hundred people that are all in a heightened state of emotions, and you are one of the first officers there and are trying to ascertain who the shooter is, what they are wearing and you have other officers making entry into a very large building, and you have people who saw and heard different things, it is confusing. Now add that some of the witnesses say they saw this person or that person who also had a weapon and it creates inaccurate information in the beginning that needs to be vetted out. You may have had only one suspect who shot, but there may be others who are part of the criminal act who may have changed their mind or were doing something else.

The security room in which the video is located at isn't accessible by law enforcement alone. They would need to find in the mass of people someone who has access to the room and access to the video. Again, more time and you sure as hell aren't going to take a civilian into a building that hasn't been cleared.


Most agencies do not actively train on scenarios in which there would be multiple CCW people in it. The topic will be discussed at agencies now, I'm sure.

The initial response was not "bungled" at all. The PD handled it in as well of a manner, given the event, circumstances, known information and manpower as that of any other agency. The investigation flowed smoothly. The PD quickly asked for assistance from a number of agencies and utilized that assistance in a judicious manner. The suspect was identified by PD people and assets were deployed. Tips came in all night long and LE responded to each of them. A lot of people were interviewed, search warrants were written and executed and family members of victims had to be notified and consoled.

The information provided that led to identifying the suspect and where it came from, I am not going to comment on. The PD briefed both assisting agencies and the public as quickly as possible. You can't make the assumption the suspect would flee or stay in any event. An example of that is the suspect who attempted to blow up the Netherland PD. He was across the street and was evacuated out of the area by law enforcement before they realized he was the suspect. Holmes was in no hurry to leave after shooting up the theater.

From a review of topics you have started on COAR and statements you have made, it is obvious you are an avid supporter of CCW and appear to be very defensive of any statement that might be considered negative to that activity. The members here on COAR do seem eager at times to Monday night quarterback law enforcement and have done so on many occasions and have caused a number of law enforcement members to stop posting and coming here. There are two people on COAR who responded to this event Wednesday night. For you to say they "bungled the initial investigation" is disingenuous, insulting and not based on the facts.

Well stated.

While I'm not particularly fond of the comments from the Public Affairs Officer that CCW holders caused delays in the investigation (this could have remained publiclly unstated), I'm pleased with everything else I saw in how this investigation was handled and how quickly our LE community was able to identify the perpetrator and get him into custody.

We're 85 posts into this thread and I'm seeing the same thing brought up again and again - people without all of the facts rendering their opinions as to how LE screwed the pooch on this. Enough.

Folks, we have a tremendous resource on this forum through our LEO members. Aside from what every other member has to offer here, our LEO members routinely offer us insight and understanding of processes that have to occur in an investigation. Consider that nationwide our LE community is actually being targeted for helping to keep all of us safer, and they face greater and greater scrutiny in the media and in the courts for making the best decisions they can in a split second under highly stressful situations. Because the face of danger continues to evolve, LE organizations continually have to adjust their training and tactics. Experience helps, but every LEO is just as human as the rest of us and WILL make mistakes; it just part of being human. It's easy to Monday morning quarterback the individual actions of an officer or agency, but without actually participating in each of these specific actions we can't possibly understand all of the obstacles they're up against.

This site has always, and unless something drastically changes will continue to support our brothers & sisters in blue. So, unless you were directly involved in any LE encounter, lets not bash these folks for doing the best job they can under the circumstances. Asking questions without an agenda or opinion is fine, but second guessing their efforts is detrimental to all of us.

Frankly, I'm saddened by the number of great members, particularly LEO members, we've run off from this site. I think it's lessened the entire COAR community.

[MarkCO]

Well said Ginsue!

[sroz]

Yep. Well stated by both OneGuy and Ginsue. I only hope that the armed citizens discouraged the scum from shooting other shoppers.

[MrPrena]

It is also sad that the shooter calls central Americans all as "Mexican."

It is like calling former Soviet and Eastern European as "Russian."

"You Russian? Russian? Russian?"
(Substitute that with Chinese, Mexican, )

"Which country are you from? Africa?"

[roberth]

Well said Ginsue!

Yep. Well stated by both OneGuy and Ginsue. I only hope that the armed citizens discouraged the scum from shooting other shoppers.

Agreed.

[crays]

Frankly, I'm saddened by the number of great members, particularly LEO members, we've run off from this site. I think it's lessened the entire COAR community.

Really? Are they that thin-skinned?

Where do they go. Are they looking for an echo chamber?

I don't believe "we've" run them off.

They left.

This site has a crap-ton more integrity than most out there. Sure, there are a few outspoken pricks who agitate a majority of the community on a regular basis, and a few who do the same on an infrequent basis. There are also a few who REALLY piss some members off on a regular basis.

Give and get. Give and take. The beauty of this site is that it is not a blank sound board for random internet douchebags. You can be pretty sure of what you're getting here.
Have we lost members? Sure. It happens.
Do we have members the collective "we" wish we lost? Maybe. Not my place to say.

Members come and go. LEO don't want to deal with LEO haters? Ignore or don't get involved in the thread.

Run away and bury your head in the sand? Boo Hoo.

Don't succumb to trolls.

I've said too much, but I hit submit anyway.

Members of this site have been run off for much less.

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