Body-Cam Video Of Daniel Shaver Shooting

[Joe_K]

Everyone knows that you're supposed to just agree with police in the street to not make them mad. So what does it matter if he lied about being drunk, or lied at all?
Also, he probably could have followed orders, if they weren't designed for failure.
Did he actually have a gun? Was he actually pointing it out the window? <-- I really don't know.
Guns and alcohol not mixing is irrelevant if he didn't fire a gun while being drunk.

There were two high powered air rifles in room 502. Multiple eyewitnesses from the ground saw at least one male pointing a long gun out of a window.

Had Mr. Shaver not have gotten to a 0.29 BAC , he might not have been pointing an Air Rifle out a hotel room window. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. If I start pointing guns on my front porch, or out my window, I would imagine the Police show up. If I was almost 4 times over the legal limit to operate a motor vehicle, what do you think my chances of going into custody completely unharmed would be?

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[Irving]

So there were rifles at least. I agree, don't be that drunk around guns. None of that has anything to do with him being killed though.

[jslo]

So there were rifles at least. I agree, don't be that drunk around guns. None of that has anything to do with him being killed though.

Disagree. It's what got the situation started.

[Gman]

The air rifles could have been easily confused for something larger. If they stayed in their cases, multiple hotel guests don't raise the alarm which started this shit storm.

Master of the Obvious statement from me on this situation - Windows work both ways.

[Joe_K]

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[palepainter]

Been a while since I have chimed in on anything, But why didn't they simply detain him when he was down responding to commands in the way in which he was being ordered? This officer needs to be offline and gone. Frankly, should have been charged. If you make someone play twister long enough, they are going to put the left hand on the red circle at sometime.

[Ronin13]

Been a while since I have chimed in on anything, But why didn't they simply detain him when he was down responding to commands in the way in which he was being ordered? This officer needs to be offline and gone. Frankly, should have been charged. If you make someone play twister long enough, they are going to put the left hand on the red circle at sometime.

Modern LE training teaches that when you're in a tactically advantageous position, you bring the suspect to you, not go to them, for officer safety reasons. The execution of this was problematic (I've never been trained to have them do this on their knees or crawling, but I wasn't there, so I can't speak to their reasons) in this particular case.

[CS1983]

The argument isn't whether or not Daniel Shaver made any bad decisions. He clearly did. Some of those preceded and even precipitated the police presence. The worst decision he made was to comply with instructions that made no sense. The job of the police was to deescalate the situation and detain an individual to determine if a crime had taken place. They did exactly the opposite of that with no necessity.

The police made worse decisions than Daniel Shaver: overcomplicated instructions, overcomplicated detainment procedures, having him crawl (unorthodox) vs standing and walking slowly with hands raised, unnecessarily escalating by tone of voice and demeaning comments, unnecessarily agitating the stress level of the individual by repeatedly threatening him if he makes a single mistake, etc.

Not even 45 seconds into the interaction we have the police accusing them of failing to comprehend simple instructions (assumedly for the female to come out first -- which is not simple, but ambiguous).

Following that, immediately, he states if they make another mistake there is a "very severe possibility you are both going to get shot". OK, so now he has escalated the stress factor with no need.

They attempt clarification and he starts with the verbal hershey squirts, verbally thumping his chest like some sort of wannabe Corporal. He continues to escalate and engage in a complex monologue.

The male rests his head on his arms and the sgt immediately blurts "For one thing, did I tell you to move young man?" At which point the male puts his arms straight fwd assuming he wants him to have his hands fwd, and gets another round of being told not to move, followed by new instruction: put his hands on top of his head and interlace his fingers, cross left foot over right.

We're not even a minute into this video and already the sgt has no control of the situation, talks unnecessarily with a tone of voice which is more condescending than it is authoritative, provides conflicting instruction, and continues to escalate the stress of the encounter. I don't even expect privates to act like this, much less a veteran police sgt.

He then asks again if anyone is in the room and is told no.

He then asks the stupidest question ever: "Are you both drunk?"

No, Sgt Dumbass. That's a subjective question and should be clarified to each individual. The question to ask is "Ma'am, have you had any alcoholic drinks tonight?" *answer* "Sir, have you had any alcoholic drinks tonight?" *answer*. This cascades into his next mistake:

He then "clarifies" whether or not they will have problems understanding anything he tells them. They agree. However, it's quite obvious that not even 2 minutes into this encounter they both seem to have problems understanding due to the fact he has seen fit to correct them several times, particularly Mr. Shaver.

Need I go on? Because this encounter so far has all the hallmarks of someone on scene who has no business being there, or at least no business giving direction. He has no control, offers conflicting instruction, etc.

And we haven't even gotten into more than 2 minutes in.

What a shit show.

[esaabye]

I had to watch this with my teen and explain to him how to deal with police. Not the conversation about how to comply but instead how and when to just go still and freeze.i don't know what else this poor kid could have done as had had no path to comply.

[OtterbatHellcat]

With some slightly more subjective input....I have to say that I'm PRO COP damn near all the time. Not always, but damn near.

I originally voiced an opinion that this was a "shitty shoot". I just watched a loop from hands straight up to last shot fired about 20 times.

For a short bit, I thought he might have been going for the bag in the middle of the floor....clearly not the case.

NOW I see the right hand motion he made behind his back, and started to bring his hand forward again....that is when the officer did what I believe to be procedure/training response.

While I still think that it sucks the subject was killed in the process of trying to follow seemingly odd directions being given....I also now see a clear and obvious window where that officer was on auto pilot relying on his training to neutralize a potential threat. Had I not seen the subject right hand motion behind and then forward, I would still call this a "shitty shoot".

That poor judgement with his right hand is what sealed his fate IMO......the rest of his poor decisions aside.

ETA:...that officer didn't have the benefit of watching it happen 20 times.