Body-Cam Video Of Daniel Shaver Shooting

[bobbyfairbanks]

all of this comes down to selection, evaluation and training failures on the leadership of the PD. ITS SAD. But there really are a laundry list of people to blame for the death besides for shooter. Use the body cam footage as training aid to stop this from happening again.

[hollohas]

Imagine a high-risk car stop. It was typical to hear something like this, especially from rookies just out on the street:

"Driver! With your right hand reach outside the window and open the vehicle door. Exit the vehicle. Turn around, face away from me, walk backwards to the sound of my voice, get down on one knee, get down on the other knee, blah, blah, blah, do this, do that, cross your feet such and such a way, you din't say 'mother may I?', etc... It's much like using police jargon when writing reports that could be much better by using normal, layman's language.

Bailey, why was that a common way for rookies to give commands?

[Bailey Guns]

I have no doubt that the prosecution brought up many of the points you're making regarding Shaver's psychological profile. But the truth is, you don't know his mindset at the time of the shooting. And apparently, whatever his mindset was as presented by testimony and/or other evidence, the jury found his version to be more credible than that presented by the prosecution.

I have to say I'm in agreement with MarkCO on this one. I'm not justifying what happened at all...especially the guy shouting instructions. That stressed me just watching the video. And I'm not so sure the guy should've been acquitted, either. If I had to make a guess and speculate on why this trial ended with an acquittal I'd have to say it's because somehow, somewhere, the prosecution dropped the ball.

ETA: On the other hand, when the jury hears the officer say, "I did exactly what I was taught to do" (in so many words), and the guy responsible for training says, "he did exactly what we taught him to do"...that's some pretty powerful testimony.

[Bailey Guns]

Bailey, why was that a common way for rookies to give commands?

Because that's how it was taught. At least back then in the 80s and 90s. I always hated that.

[Irving]

I only know what I saw in the video, but when I watch I don't necessarily see someone who's native state would be considered "trigger happy." I think it's possible that when you're holding a gun on someone, and the person shouting all the commands is freaking the fuck out and losing his mind, you're probably pretty amped up at that point. "Geez, this seems to be a bigger deal than I thought, he keeps threatening to kill them, guess I'd better be ready to actually pull the trigger here so no one on my team does due to my hesitating." Obviously I've no experience with this, but I can at least see that side of why this happened. It doesn't excuse that it happened, just probably more likely than that PD having a team of blood thirsty murders out running the streets.

[CS1983]

I only know what I saw in the video, but when I watch I don't necessarily see someone who's native state would be considered "trigger happy." I think it's possible that when you're holding a gun on someone, and the person shouting all the commands is freaking the fuck out and losing his mind, you're probably pretty amped up at that point. "Geez, this seems to be a bigger deal than I thought, he keeps threatening to kill them, guess I'd better be ready to actually pull the trigger here so no one on my team does due to my hesitating." Obviously I've no experience with this, but I can at least see that side of why this happened. It doesn't excuse that it happened, just probably more likely than that PD having a team of blood thirsty murders out running the streets.

That sort of situation is when you recognize your team mate is having an issue and step in to calm the situation.

While kind of an aside, I recall when my TC (SSG) reached the portion in a gunnery table where the gunner goes black and TC has to initiate a mock call for fire mission. He started wigging out and totally screwing up the call for fire. My wingman TC, a SGT, broke in the sequence on the net and started issuing corrections and proper call for fire procedures. SSG literally threw down the mic and whined, "he's stepping on my toes". No, he was saving our evolution while SSG pissed all over his own face for the world to hear.

No one is perfect all the time. It's ok to step in, even if junior, to correct a situation spiraling out of control.

[crays]

That sort of situation is when you recognize your team mate is having an issue and step in to calm the situation.

While kind of an aside, I recall when my TC (SSG) reached the portion in a gunnery table where the gunner goes black and TC has to initiate a mock call for fire mission. He started wigging out and totally screwing up the call for fire. My wingman TC, a SGT, broke in the sequence on the net and started issuing corrections and proper call for fire procedures. SSG literally threw down the mic and whined, "he's stepping on my toes". No, he was saving our evolution while SSG pissed all over his own face for the world to hear.

No one is perfect all the time. It's ok to step in, even if junior, to correct a situation spiraling out of control.

You care to reiterate that in layman's terms?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Bailey Guns]

I only know what I saw in the video, but when I watch I don't necessarily see someone who's native state would be considered "trigger happy." I think it's possible that when you're holding a gun on someone, and the person shouting all the commands is freaking the fuck out and losing his mind, you're probably pretty amped up at that point. "Geez, this seems to be a bigger deal than I thought, he keeps threatening to kill them, guess I'd better be ready to actually pull the trigger here so no one on my team does due to my hesitating." Obviously I've no experience with this, but I can at least see that side of why this happened. It doesn't excuse that it happened, just probably more likely than that PD having a team of blood thirsty murders out running the streets.

That seems like a perfectly reasonable view of the situation.

That sort of situation is when you recognize your team mate is having an issue and step in to calm the situation.

<snip>

No one is perfect all the time. It's ok to step in, even if junior, to correct a situation spiraling out of control.

What did you see in the video that leads you to believe the shooter was having an issue or spiraling out of control?

[CS1983]

crays -

We were doing gunnery and the SSG had to call for fire. Got flustered. Junior NCO stepped over him on the net to complete the evolution and SSG got pissy about it, but Junior NCO did the right thing.

Bailey Guns -

I was replying to Irving who was talking about the state of mind of the shooter potentially being amped due to the other officer getting out of control with his commands. It is my understanding the shooter was not the one giving commands. It's the responsibility of everyone to maintain their own head and to assist with control of the situation.

[Bailey Guns]

I gotcha. You're talking about someone telling the sgt (who seems to have been doing all the screaming at the guy) to maybe take it down a notch or two? Agreed.