BARF diet (for dogs)

[Fentonite]

Anybody heard of this? The BARF diet (Bones And Raw Food). An Australian veterinarian came up with it and apparently there's lots of traction. It's based on the idea that feeding your dogs a diet that's more in line with what they'd eat in the wild is more healthy for them. The wife wanted to try it, and after some research, I bought a deep freeze and a really nice meat grinder to help her do it (bonus - I get a deep freeze and a meat grinder, regardless).

Calvin (young Rottie) really doesn't need the meat grinder. He's as happy as a pig in shit to crunch on a quarter chicken or a few turkey necks. He makes it look like eating is a fun experience, crunching and shaking his food instead of just chewing kibble. Cica, the old girl, isn't as interested in chewing bones, hence the grinder. But they've both taken a liking (duh), and really seem happier and more energetic. Calvin used to puke up undigested kibble a few time a week. Since starting their new diet, no vomiting, and their poops are ridiculously smaller and less frequent. And they drink a ton less water, I assume because they don't need it to rehydrate the kibble. Hard to argue with results so far, but it's early yet.

(Supposedly chicken bones are only dangerous when cooked, which makes them brittle and splinter. Raw, they're still pretty malleable and safe).

Our local butcher can get bulk turkey necks, turkey and chicken backs, and pig organs (important source of vitamins) pretty cheap for us, so we may start buying in bulk. So far, they've eaten most parts of common fowl (lots of chicken legs and thighs, turkey necks & backs, and chicken feet, which they think are quite fun), hamburger, rump roast, some organ meat for vitamins (strange - gotta cook the calf liver or they won't touch it), and a slew of veggies and fruit. With the deep freeze and "Carnivore" meat grinder from Cabela's, it'll be more doable to grind up meals just once a month. I thought it'd be prohibitively expensive, but it looks like it'll be a wash, on a cost per day basis (excluding labor), compared to Costco dog food. And it's fun to watch the pups enjoy it and seem to "wake up".

Anybody else heard of this?

[rondog]

Been wanting to try something like that for our Beagles for years, but my wife is a big HELL NO on the idea.

[Irving]

We've had a thread on here about this a few years ago. I think ChunkyMunky and Jer were doing it if I remember correctly. I was wondering about the cost myself. Do they eat less?

[Ramsker]

I know some people that do this and they seem to report that the dogs do well on it.

For me . . . just seems like a lot of effort and would be harder to keep up. And then the few times that our GSD is in the kennel for vacations and things like that, it would be hard to account for feeding. But maybe I'm just too lazy in the end, too. Much easier to just put some kibble in a bowl and be done with it.

[SuperiorDG]

I've been doing it for my two labs for years. I'll check in later and tell you about it, but I do swear by it.

[SuperiorDG]

When I recused my Yellow Lab he was very thin, you could see his ribs. He would not eat kibbles or would throw it up if he did. Put him and my other lab on the BARF diet and they both devourer there food with no problems. I just basically feeding them frozen chicken necks which I get from a meat distributor off Airport road. A 40 lb box is 18.60 or what ever the going rate is. I leave it frozen and just hack off some for feeding. I also give them some canned veggies now and then. I sometimes spend extended time over at my girlfriends house and feed them kibbles and if its on a limited bases they are fine with it, no digestive problems as far as I can tell

[clodhopper]

Everyone has an opinion, take it for what it is worth.

Dogs are not wolves. Wolves (foxes, etc) live on natural BARF diet. Through domestication, dogs are more of an omnivore than their ancestors. A BARF diet works well for malnourished animals to get them up on weight, but you will find the dog eating grass and stuff as they are trying to fulfill (unknowingly anyway) the missing aspects of the diet. Wolves have a super high acidic stomach that protects them from the risks of eating raw, or more importantly, spoiled meats that they seek naturally. Dogs do not have the same, it is better than ours so they can handle more questionable food than we can, but they are not wolves. Raw meat can be beneficial, but be wary of your meat selections for your dog. If giving them bones, stick to beef bones. Chicken bones are prone to splintering, which can get caught in the throat causing choking, but more importantly can pierce stomach and intestine walls. Big risk.

I have had a full lab retriever that had trouble keeping weight on, for a variety of reasons, and we would switch her to a BARF diet for periods of time, or augment meals with raw meatballs. Works good. But, don't leave out the veggies. Cheap canned greenbeans work fine, but the dog may prefer fresher stuff. The more dogs are allowed to eat fresh veggies, the more they will crave them. Older dogs will have a harder time chewing/digesting hard raw veggies (like carrots) but will love them lightly cooked and cooled.

We create dog food which seems to meet (pun not intended) the needs of the dogs. I find the less preferred animal meats, beef tongue, hearts, livers, freezer burned beef, bones, scraps from elk butchering, whatever. I have developed a network of people who end up with this stuff and send it my way. I toss it all in a pot with water and garlic and boil it down for 2 or 3 days. (Garlic supposedly has other benefits for the dog, but I add it make the smell more tolerable while it is cooking ) Fish out all the bones, blender the goop and pressure can it. This broth has a lot of the good stuff for keeping joints and cartilage in working order. Smells pretty bad to me, but the dogs think it is the bomb. Anyway, you can use it as gravy on lesser quality kibbles, or what I do is add carrots and green beans to rice with a jar of the goop, that becomes dog food with the addition of a handful of kibble for crunch and teeth cleaning. You can use spinach or whatever for veggies instead of green beans, but use green stuff. If your dog tends to eat grass, this should greatly reduce, or eliminate the habit, and the spry puppy nature will return. This diet has extended the life of several dogs with bad joints, seizures and other similar ailments.

[Ronin13]

We have a good family friend who is a pretty premier SME in Flatcoat hunting dogs, and he started this whole BARF diet on his dogs, and says that a lot of the high quality trainers and veterinarians are pretty split down the middle on this. He's had pretty good, noticeable success with the new diet, and is a big proponent. He also said that it can be costly to begin with, but he likes it. We've begun to look into it, and have yet to talk to our vet about it. I'm intrigued, and wonder if it would be good for my dog, Cairo. My wife, on the other hand, the jury is still out. I did notice that Cairo does drink a lot of water, but the kibble we have him on is pretty high quality stuff that our vet has recommended. I'll definitely be exploring this option further. Fentonite- how much is the cost compared to a 10lb bag of kibble? I keep getting mixed info on it.

[Fentonite]

As far as cost, I've been aiming at $1/lb averaged. SuperiorDG's chicken neck distributor may cut that down significantly!

Right now, I'm feeding 1% of their body weight twice a day. So Calvin (100 lbs) is $2/day, probably gonna get that lower. The dog food we were feeding was also about $1/lb, but so much more of that turned into poop.

Clodhopper - you expressed a lot of the same points I did when my wife suggested this. What I've learned (I think) is that you're right about the dog/wolf similarity/differences, so there's no roadkill or wild hunts in their diet. Basically, everyone knows that processed foods are bad for people and fresh is better, so why wouldn't that idea carry over to dogs? They get apples and green beans and non-"wolfy" stuff to supplement and provide the stuff that dogs need.

I'm glad there's folks on here who know about this, looking forward to more input (pro or con, I have lots to learn). I told my wife that I'd have an open mind about trying it, as long as she'd have an open mind about stopping if it wasn't right or good for them, so we'll see where this goes.

[clodhopper]

Clodhopper - you expressed a lot of the same points I did when my wife suggested this. What I've learned (I think) is that you're right about the dog/wolf similarity/differences, so there's no roadkill or wild hunts in their diet. Basically, everyone knows that processed foods are bad for people and fresh is better, so why wouldn't that idea carry over to dogs? They get apples and green beans and non-"wolfy" stuff to supplement and provide the stuff that dogs need.

Definitely yes on the processed/fresh issue. The big bad in kibbles is all the grains and fillers. The BARF is good if you are resolving certain issues (like underfed or unknown weight loss) but if long term it should be augmented with veggies. Fruits are fun too, just not too much.... sugar ya know.