SWATting turns deadly

[TheGrey]

I was really only thinking of geo location associated with whatever phone was used - area codes are practically useless given cell phones and how far some of us live from where we bought our first cell. Maybe it’s not automatic, but a geoloc even if just based on towers and not gps would be one more thing that could help departments avoid situations like this.

Are you speaing of cell pings? I'm not sure, but I think that takes time. I have my geolocation turned off on my cell phone.

[Zundfolge]

This is a difficult one because the first time a family held hostage is murdered by their kidnapper because the cops stood around and waited outside, people will come down on them like a ton of bricks for that too.

I guess one problem I see is the mindset with which police tactics are devised and police are trained. It used to be that police had the mindset that their job was to "preserve the peace" (maybe even "protect and serve") whereas today they seem to have the mindset that their job is to "dominate the situation" (which makes them see the populace as adversaries not innocent citizens). And just maybe pulling GIs fresh off a tour of kicking in doors and burning Hajis in some third world hell hole on the streets of America with full battle dress and an AR, winding them up and pointing them at people's doors with this "go and dominate soldier!" mindset isn't helping either.

Either way the police are in a tough position ... I don't envy them one bit.

I do think that SWATting should be a classified as attempted first degree homicide (if nobody dies) and outright first degree homicide (if someone does).

[Bailey Guns]

That's right. It's difficult to come up with an answer, even after reading all the reports and watching the YT videos and discussing it ad nauseam on internet forums. Now imagine how hard it is when you're the one behind the trigger making the split second decision without the benefit of internet experts to guide you. Sometimes bad decisions are made. Most of the time, thank God, these men and women make the correct decision under the most difficult of circumstances...again without the guidance of internet experts.

What just irritates me to no end is this rarely happens with any other profession. A doctor screws up and someone dies non-medical "experts" don't get on the internet and spout off about how the procedure that killed the patient should've been performed. They don't say the doctor wasn't using the right tactic or procedure for what s/he was doing. A pilot screws up and crashes an airplane and people die non-pilot "experts" don't get on internet forums and say "he should've used a little right rudder and adjusted the thrust" or some shit. But when a cop screws up, or even appears to screw up from the perspective of a 10 second video clip, everybody's suddenly a fucking expert on police tactics, procedures and training. And I'd venture to say that most of the "internet experts" are complete non-hackers who wouldn't last a shift in a busy city.

Yeah. It pushes my buttons. Always has, always will.

[Zundfolge]

One common factor with every SWATTING call is they will be missing or have crazy-off geolocate information so it helps sort the potentials from the definitely -nots.

Here's an idea, add a third piece of information to the Caller ID that only dispatch can see, something like an MD5 hash used as a checksum to verify file integrity. When you spoof a Caller ID tag you manually enter in the name and number you want to display, but if the phone company added a third number that would only show up for 911 dispatchers you couldn't fool them with the Caller ID spoof ... then dispatch could tell the officers on the scene that the call looks fake so proceed with requisite caution. I'm sure some serious hackers could figure a way around this, but 99.999% of SWATting is done by script kiddes using a spoofing app they downloaded off the net, not serious hackers.

[theGinsue]

Now that is a fantastic idea and would help solve this problem. Awesome thinking there brother.

[spqrzilla]

Since a friend of mine was SWAT'd a few years ago - and there is reason to believe it was done by the associates of an infamous violent criminal - I find this situation very infuriating. I've seen too often that dispatch centers pay little or no attention to the red flags of a SWATing.

[Ronin13]

That's right. It's difficult to come up with an answer, even after reading all the reports and watching the YT videos and discussing it ad nauseam on internet forums. Now imagine how hard it is when you're the one behind the trigger making the split second decision without the benefit of internet experts to guide you. Sometimes bad decisions are made. Most of the time, thank God, these men and women make the correct decision under the most difficult of circumstances...again without the guidance of internet experts.

What just irritates me to no end is this rarely happens with any other profession. A doctor screws up and someone dies non-medical "experts" don't get on the internet and spout off about how the procedure that killed the patient should've been performed. They don't say the doctor wasn't using the right tactic or procedure for what s/he was doing. A pilot screws up and crashes an airplane and people die non-pilot "experts" don't get on internet forums and say "he should've used a little right rudder and adjusted the thrust" or some shit. But when a cop screws up, or even appears to screw up from the perspective of a 10 second video clip, everybody's suddenly a fucking expert on police tactics, procedures and training. And I'd venture to say that most of the "internet experts" are complete non-hackers who wouldn't last a shift in a busy city.

Yeah. It pushes my buttons. Always has, always will.

I'm right there with you. I've worked several jobs/professions in my life, but never one where people who have ZERO experience constantly try to tell me and my partners how to "better do our jobs" until I got into the Law Enforcement game. It not only grinds my gears, it really disappoints me that thanks to the internet everyone is an expert on LE procedure.

[Irving]

I'm right there with you. I've worked several jobs/professions in my life, but never one where people who have ZERO experience constantly try to tell me and my partners how to "better do our jobs" until I got into the Law Enforcement game. It not only grinds my gears, it really disappoints me that thanks to the internet everyone is an expert on LE procedure.

Part of keeping the peace is de-escalation and conflict resolution with direct interaction with the public, which nearly every single person does nearly every single day. It doesn't take knowledge of a super secret "LE procedure" to understand how to interact with people or be able to tell when someone has screwed up in doing so. In addition, the general public is the very target of "LE procedure," so they have a highly vested interest in how well things are working. If a specialized doctor screws up some procedure and a patient with a rare medical condition dies as a result, most people won't have that condition so they won't care. However, the police deal with "the public" which includes every single person in the country, including the LE community. The quicker you can get over the idea that the most basic part of your job some how makes you above reproach from the public, the better your quality of life will be.\

EDIT: I'm not sure how to word my post so it doesn't sound like I'm harassing you, but that isn't my intent.

[brutal]

I'm right there with you. I've worked several jobs/professions in my life, but never one where people who have ZERO experience constantly try to tell me and my partners how to "better do our jobs" until I got into the Law Enforcement game. It not only grinds my gears, it really disappoints me that thanks to the internet everyone is an expert on LE procedure.

Close second is IT.

However, I do enjoy second guessing my doctors.

[Gman]

Close second is IT.

However, I do enjoy second guessing my doctors.

Agreed on both counts. "Why are our computers so expensive? I see them for $400 at Best Buy."

I keep my doctors on their toes by being informed and asking solid questions.