Hawaii False Alarm

[Irving]

I don't mean to point at you spefically, especially since most of us here are just internet chlubs and it doesn't matter what we think, I just hope the military and government isn't taking any chances.

[Bailey Guns]

I don't mean to point at you spefically, especially since most of us here are just internet chlubs and it doesn't matter what we think, I just hope the military and government isn't taking any chances.

Sorry...I wasn't offended by what you said and didn't mean to sound that way. To expand a little... We were told how awesome and mighty Saddam's military was prior to Desert Storm and the Gulf War by talking heads and "experts", day in and day out. Military leaders were quietly saying "yes", he did have a substantial military capability but they were prepared for it. Turns out, he had a huge military capability...that was overwhelmed and slaughtered in a matter of hours by a much superior force we moved half way around the world.

NK seems to me to be similar. For a small country they have a massive military...with little capability to project it anywhere but within a relatively short distance from home. They don't have the logistics or supply capability to sustain that military for long in a war. Obviously, the threat to the south and to Japan will be far greater than it will be to the US mainland. Personally, I think "Rocket Man" wants a nuke more as a deterrent to a US first strike of any sort...even though that sounds a little ironic and backwards. He knows as long as he has that capability we'll be less likely to strike. He can't possibly believe he's going to win a nuclear exchange in any scenario...not even he's that delusional. He has to know that our response to a NK strike will be so overwhelming and devastating that little will be left of his country...even if it's just a massive conventional strike.

I know my first-hand knowledge is dangerously outdated. But when I was in I was in a position to know a bit more than some about the Soviet capability back during the cold war days. I'll be honest...what I heard about Soviet military capability from "experts" in the media and what I saw in my job were two completely different things.

[Skip]

[snip]

NK seems to me to be similar. For a small country they have a massive military...with little capability to project it anywhere but within a relatively short distance from home. They don't have the logistics or supply capability to sustain that military for long in a war. Obviously, the threat to the south and to Japan will be far greater than it will be to the US mainland. Personally, I think "Rocket Man" wants a nuke more as a deterrent to a US first strike of any sort...even though that sounds a little ironic and backwards. He knows as long as he has that capability we'll be less likely to strike. He can't possibly believe he's going to win a nuclear exchange in any scenario...not even he's that delusional. He has to know that our response to a NK strike will be so overwhelming and devastating that little will be left of his country...even if it's just a massive conventional strike.

[snip]

Without China (Russia) they're little more than a speed bump. And I can't believe China has let Lil' Kim take it this far. Should anyone get too froggy China either loses it's economy (based on US trade) or secedes regional power and allows us to attack. That's a lot of boat rocking for Beijing to tolerate.

I'd take a do over as long as we don't have to rebuild it.



This "nation building" bullshit is taking the sting out of war. If a #ShitHoleCountry wants to kamikaze itself they can rebuild their own nation.

But I do want our remains brought home. That ground doesn't deserve them.

[Irving]

Desert Storm was exactly what I was thinking of actually. Much prefer to find out we over estimated than under estimated.

[Bailey Guns]

Scientists lying about computer models predicting effects on the atmosphere due to various reasons... That just sounds far-fetched to me.

[zimagold]

FEMA NCR Key Response Planning Factors for the Aftermath of Nuclear Terrorism (2011)

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dhs/fema/ncr.pdf

Decent read based on modern simulation for small yield device. Zone effects would scale up for larger devices.

[KevDen2005]

FEMA NCR Key Response Planning Factors for the Aftermath of Nuclear Terrorism (2011)

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dhs/fema/ncr.pdf

Decent read based on modern simulation for small yield device. Zone effects would scale up for larger devices.

Thanks. I do agree that EMP is probably a more likely danger to Colorado, but you never know and I'm curious.

[BushMasterBoy]

My father was stationed at Johnston Atoll. 1964-1965. He died from multiple myeloma in 2004 due to exposure from a nuclear weapons accident over the island. When he returned from the island, he was covered in "beta burns". As a child I used to play with his dosimeters. I believe the data produced from these atomic weapons is still classified TOP SECRET. It was known as Program 437. A lot of the information is NOT available on the internet. It is possible to build a very dirty nuclear weapon that will leave a large area uninhabitable for a very long time. Ionizing radiation is a very bad thing,if ingested or breathed in. One microgram of radioactive bomb grade plutonium in your lung, usually will result in a cancerous tumor the size of your fist. This is just my personal knowledge and most of my Nuclear,Chemical & Biological training in the military emphasized surviving a chemical attack. If your area is subjected to a nuclear attack, you will have to evacuate. The fallout if ingested in any way, will greatly shorten your life. A gas mask is essential, as is a geiger counter. The geiger counter is to make sure anything you eat or drink is free of radioactive fallout. I prefer the M-40 gas mask and the Gamma Scout geiger counter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfish_Prime


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnston_Atoll


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program_437

[Aloha_Shooter]

Irving, I don't underestimate North Korea's belligerence but they have a very limited ability to project power and their missile engineering has had problems. They got where they did thanks to the intransigence and incompetence of the Clinton and Obama administrations but it's still not even comparable to the US or Russia in 1948.

As far as Project Starfish goes, what BushmasterBoy's father and countless other servicemen went through was a tragedy but they suffered what they did because we didn't know what we were playing with back then. The US actually had plans for nuclear artillery back then (not to far back in fact). If North Korea launched a missile at Hawaii and it actually managed to hit Pearl Harbor with an operational nuclear warhead, our casualties would be tremendous but I don't think the blast effects would reach as far as Kapiolani Park to the east and probably not as far as Mililani to the north.

I would guess the blast would channel up the valley that H-3 passes through but Nuuanu, Manoa, Palolo, and areas further east would be shielded by the ridgelines. I wouldn't want to be in one of the houses along the ridgeline due to line-of-sight radiation. With normal tradewinds, fallout should be blown out to sea, mitigating some of the immediate exposure effects but creating long term problems for the sea life and anyone living off the sea.

I hope the idiots making up Hawaii's congressional delegation got a wake-up call from this but I'm not holding my breath. Schatz and Gabbard are both at Maxine Waters-level of stupidity (and the bad news is they are both much much younger than Waters or Pelosi).

[KevDen2005]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-QWXvNFWrc

I thought this was a pretty cool time lapse video of every nuclear explosion