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  1. #11
    Moderator SA Friday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattiooo View Post
    Honest question and not criticism - would all the space between walls in a real house have changed the results of the test? I can certainly appreciate why you did the test the way you did.
    I talk about that in the 223/556 video. I think it actually could be a factor to some extent in the Vmax bullets since they are fragmenting. The projectiles that didn't frag? Na.... I am thinking about doing some more testing with larger pieces more spread out to see what I can see.
    Mom's comin' 'round to put it back the way it ought to be.

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  2. #12
    Moderator SA Friday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOLON LABE View Post
    https://youtu.be/PbdmQ5IN2j0


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    Caught you on the youtube convo..
    Mom's comin' 'round to put it back the way it ought to be.

    Anyone that thinks war is good is ignorant. Anyone that thinks war isn't needed is stupid.

  3. #13
    Machine Gunner MOLON LABE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SA Friday View Post
    Caught you on the youtube convo..
    Back at you, good stuff man.

    In my experience walls separated normal distances will only serve to deviate a projectile from off of a straight course to God only knows.

    So basically safety and liability issues are compounded by errant misses. Even if you have a “good” angle i.e. directly behind the home invader there is nothing you love, or mind paying for, then the bad guy moves, you flinch low and left etc, now that miss is hitting stuff, passing through rooms, deviating off of a straight path and hitting, as the Mohammedans would say “Inshallah”.

    Bottom line? Don’t miss. That and Shotguns are stupid. Except for shooting clays, birds, Bears with slugs, or busting down doors.

    IMO a good selection for test ammo would be a control, for rifles say 5.56x45mm M193 55gr, handguns 9x19 NATO 124gr ball, or Federal .40 S&W 165gr ball then compare against what the FBI HRT, Denver PD SWAT, NYPD SWAT, OCSD SWAT, LAPD SWAT etc. are using. For room entries you will have the same, if not more, considerations for finding the balance of lethality and over penetration.


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  4. #14
    Moderator SA Friday's Avatar
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    So, I did two basic charts on the data and it's pretty clear 15 boards is the cutoff. 16 is the average but only because a couple rounds shot through a small neighborhood's worth of boards. Of all the test firearms, there was little deviation between 9, 223, 300, and 12 Gauge with basic rounds. 15 boards or more. The ARX and Vmax bullets penetrated below the 15 board numerical mean. They have very high velocity and fragmenting bullets in common.

    So, for a different perspective, I calculated how much power factor (PF) per board for each shot also. (Power factor is used in a lot of competition sports to compare and separate ammo based on their momentum, and therefore their recoil.) It is an interesting way to compare how efficiently the bullet itself was shedding momentum through the boards. I omitted the shotgun and one of the 300 blackout bullets from the review. The shotgun numbers just didn't correlate as they simply operated differently. The 200gr FMJ 300 Blk round was stopped by a 2x4 and so the numbers were skewed and it was obvious in this analysis. The PF/B Showed anything from 8.5 to 10.5 was fairly normal. Below 8.5 was very inefficient, the 300 Blk 205 Gorilla and the bi-metal bullets fell into this category. The efficient bullets, over 10.5, were the three Vmax bullets tested. Kind of an interesting way of looking at the bullet construction and how it influenced the testing.
    Mom's comin' 'round to put it back the way it ought to be.

    Anyone that thinks war is good is ignorant. Anyone that thinks war isn't needed is stupid.

  5. #15
    Pickles; the Camel Kisser Irving's Avatar
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    Would you mind expanding on how power factor translates into efficiency, and also how you were able to arrive at a power per board figure?
    "In prosperity, our friends know us; in adversity, we know our friends." -John Churton Collins

  6. #16
    High Power Shooter izzy's Avatar
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    I'm curious about how much of a difference insulation between the walls would make. I suspect it'd make quite a difference. Cool videos!

  7. #17
    Pickles; the Camel Kisser Irving's Avatar
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    I think that several layers would, but most interior walls aren't insulated. Houses will also have some sort of siding as well. Most common is hardiboard, vinyl, aluminum, steel, stucco or a brick veneer. I'd suspect the vinyl and aluminum to have the least effect, maybe even the same amount as that batt insulation.
    "In prosperity, our friends know us; in adversity, we know our friends." -John Churton Collins

  8. #18
    High Power Shooter izzy's Avatar
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    Makes sense. Like previous posts, not trying to criticize just curious.

  9. #19
    Machine Gunner Jeffrey Lebowski's Avatar
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    Cool project & info.



    Edit: I'm mostly interested in the G19, and that is FAR more penetration than I'd expected.
    Last edited by Jeffrey Lebowski; 02-14-2018 at 06:16.
    Life Member: NRA, GSSF

  10. #20
    Moderator SA Friday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irving View Post
    Would you mind expanding on how power factor translates into efficiency, and also how you were able to arrive at a power per board figure?
    Sure. Power factor is mass times velocity and then divided by 1000 to make the number more manageable. It's basically a numerically stunted version of momentum (originally mass times velocity -->grains feet per second, which is awkward at best). Then I took the power factor and divided it by the number of boards the round penetrated. This gives you how much momentum the bullet lost per board on average. Obviously the earlier boards probably reduced momentum more than the later boards, but for a general comparative analysis, this was easy enough.
    Mom's comin' 'round to put it back the way it ought to be.

    Anyone that thinks war is good is ignorant. Anyone that thinks war isn't needed is stupid.

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