Shooting at School in Parkland, Florida

[Great-Kazoo]

^^^^Extreme LIKE^^^^^ might as well close the thread.

[Joe_K]

This will, unfortunately, poke a big hole in the "only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun." argument. Of course you can try to do damage control and argue that the deputy wasn't that good of a good guy, or that he was protecting those in his immediate area, but that won't fly and the damage has been done.

Except this POS Deputy wasn’t a good guy, he was a coward. I will say it again, Cowardice x Evil = Our current society.


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[Irving]

Sounds like it'll take more than just having a gun in the school then.

[DenverGP]

how about a gun in the trained hands of the PE teacher who gave his life and confronted the gunman unarmed.... he was ready to step up, just didn't have the tools needed to take the loser out.

[Joe_K]

Sounds like it'll take more than just having a gun in the school then.

Absolutely, reducing entry points once school is in session, training and arming eligible and willing hallway monitors and janitors, coaches, and principles, ending student deferment policies, allowing teachers to discipline kids again, up armor the far corner of every classroom, kick proof, bullet proof doors, security mirrors at every intersecting hallway, creating a national/regional 1-800 tip line to report persons suspected of plotting mass killings, whether that be terrorism, or the crazy/evil/coward emo pimply faced teen.


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[CS1983]

Well CO AR15 Forum, you've had a busy day.

Lots of heated discussion, people got banned, and so on. And I had to work all day and missed it.

But I wanted to address the police issue real quick. I can appreciate the pointing out of the no real requirement from the US Supreme Court to have to protect people. And I must point out that I wasn't there and have no actual knowledge of what went down or what people were thinking.

But I get frustrated as an instructor seeing more and more officers getting hired who don't want to be warriors. They want to be counselors. When the war breaks out they don't want to step up. We've seen some of this in recent officer involved shootings and it's kind of tearing me up inside. It upsets me that when the most horrible day comes the people that signed up to do aren't there to do it, they are spectators. The most recent generation (and many of past generations) believe, "It's never gonna happen" or "It won't happen to me" and then they are completely unprepared.

Again, I wasn't there, I don't know the officer that was on scene, and I don't know what they saw or heard. It's just a feeling I wanted to express.

ETA: I want to point out in 10 years on the job I have been extremely afraid in multiple situations. People are relying on me though, whether it be the man next to me or the person in a real emergency. I always hope that I have what it takes to step up with my partners when they rely on me.

Was talking with my team lead yesterday about the Deputy who didn't enter. He didn't understand, because in his mind, a cop is there to protect, place himself in dangerous situations, etc. He's a bit naive in his liberalism. I explained that some people just lock up when it's their time to shine. No way around it. Training can mitigate, but I've seen it happen to a SSG even in a training situation. Platoon Sergeant saw it too and got rid of him since he could no longer trust him in actual combat.

Now, I'm not a cop, but it seems that only the SWAT guys and former military would have a mindset which should guarantee a "rush towards the gunfire" mentality. Otherwise, a lot of folks probably join for more benign altruistic reasons. Not sure how one gets assigned as a SRO... time on force? More of a Counselor mentality? Dunno.

Even past performance as such doesn't guarantee that one will be Johnny On The Spot in a future situation. There have been home invasions where a 12 year old girl stepped up: http://www.news9.com/story/19858704/...-home-invasion

And then there's situations where grown men, armed well, wearing body armor just freeze and don't act. How much bravado did they display or even go through internally, prior to being tested? Only they and God know.

The human mind is an interesting thing. The psychology of such things is much talked about in gun circles: sheep, wolves, and sheep dogs.

It sounds very good. People learn the lingo. Wear their PHU or Grunt Style shirts. They order their Black Rifle Coffee. They spit their Copenhagen out in disgust at some Deputy locking up. They have no idea if they will actually be a sheep dog when the wolf comes, even if they have in the past.

At Clear Creek Abbey, in Oklahoma, the monks keep sheep and they have sheep dogs. Generally Great Pyrenees. A lot of mornings those dogs are bloody from fighting whatever came near their flock in the night. They don't posture in the day, but lay around watching and seeming gentle. By night, they'll rip the face off of anything which comes at them and theirs.

When Audie Murphy was asked why he did what he did, his answer was simple: "They were killing my friends." USMC reject. Airborne reject. Nothing special about him until he went down in history as an absolute legend. How many 6'2", 190lbs of rippling muscle Paratroopers and Marines locked up in lesser situations? No way to tell, but given the numbers fighting in WW2, I'd say a few.

So what's the answer? I don't know. I won't posture and thump it out in primordial morse code. Based on those who have been awarded the CMH, it's simply the realization that though wholly unsuited to the task, it's either they risk life and limb or they suffer the consequences: dead friends, dead them, etc.

[hollohas]

This was a breakdown at every level.

The tough thing about school resource officers is that the 'warrior' type isn't usually the first to sign up for the job. I've never seen a school resource officer that appeared to be the cream of the crop. It's just not an exciting job.
From my experience, the Barney Fife type seems to get assigned to the job and I'm not sure that will ever change.

[cstone]

CavSct1983, Post #257 is an excellent insight.

Do they still have kids read The Red Badge of Courage in school?

[roberth]

CavSct1983, Post #257 is an excellent insight.

Yes it is.

[buffalobo]

how about a gun in the trained hands of the PE teacher who gave his life and confronted the gunman unarmed.... he was ready to step up, just didn't have the tools needed to take the loser out.

This^^^. Unarmed teacher/coach ran toward shooter.

Natural sheep dogs. There are some folks like this in each school. Set up circumstances for them to be effective.

If you're unarmed, you are a victim