Afghanistan

[sniper7]

I've never been there and don't want to unless I am strapped into an A-10 providing cover fire for the troops.

I would much rather everyone pull out, fly 3 B1 bombers in this coming 4th of July and finish the war.

[Bailey Guns]

Now, if some dumb ass retired AFOSI Special Agent knows this, you think the Bush Admin didn't have the same access to the info? I'm thinking they did long before they launched this dually located war. Remember, the mujhadeen are honor bound to defend. Their core beliefs are to defend at all costs before they can attack outside their homelands. This is the philosophy that dictates the Hambali Sunni's and Whabbi/Salif sects of the Muslim faith; The Koran is ultimate truth to be followed verbatum.

So, where do you want Islamic holy warriors fighting?

Exactly. Personally, I believe this is one of the central tenets for invading Iraq. Aside from the fact Hussein was a dictatorial douchebag, Iraq is a relatively easy country (when compared to lots of other places like, oh, Afghanistan) in which to conduct a war. The idea that a war against the Islamic homeland will attract defenders from far and wide makes sense. Get them into Iraq and kill them. We've been extremely successful in doing that up until this year. The Patraeus strategy of winning over the hearts and minds of the locals worked brilliantly after he was given the resources to do it. It didn't take long, once we adopted a strategy of actually showing the locals we were the good guys and concerned about them, to win them over and begin defeating al Queda at every turn. Of course, it didn't hurt that the al Queda shitheads continued to murder, plunder, indescriminantly kill non-combatants, blow up mosques, etc... But that was the idea.

The same can be accomplished in Afghanistan...if we had leadership in DC that would make the decision to allow it to happen. It's going to take more resources and commitment than has thus far been shown to make that happen. Barack Obama knows nothing about warfare, has surrounded himself with people who know nothing about warfare, and is fundamentally opposed to what the US is trying to accomplish "over there". Gen MacChrystal has tried, in vain apparently, to educate and advise Obama about this very fact. Obama is a stubborn man and is too ignorant to want to take advice from the very military man he's placed in charge and from whom he's asked advice on prosecuting the war.

This presidency is a disaster. This president, if he delays much longer, will be forced to withdraw from Afghanistan which will quicken a pending disaster. All that has been won and/or gained in the area will quickly be lost.

We need more troops in Afghanistan, in significant numbers (at least the 40k MacChrystal has asked for) and we need them now. We need our president to show some backbone for a change and we need him to make a decision.."shit or get off the pot", as the old saying goes. And we need a president committed to providing our warriors with the resources, both on the ground and in the air to properly support them.

The shortsighted and illogical suggestion of leaving Afghanistan now is exactly the wrong thing to do.

If that happens, omio, you may - God forbid - get your wish. But you should realize one thing. It won't be you fighting them...it will be unarmed and helpless citizens in office buildings, children in schools, patients in hospitals and other innocents that can't protect themselves bearing the brunt of the onslaught.

[omio]

I was in iraq too... mostly fighting Sunni insurgents see I am pretty pissed at what happened there with the "Awakening" bullshit. The highers idea of awakening was giving all the fighters and their stupid fucking sheiks of fucks that where blowing us the fuck up with IEDs IRLs and RPGs around every corner and give them lots of money and more guns to patrol the streets of ramadi and just like that we "won" it makes me extremely angry that the same people that killed my brothers are our friends now some how... But i guess if it makes Americans feel safer at home I guess we did the job...

[Bailey Guns]

No need to get all defensive, omio. I'm sorry you lost a brother. I lost friends when I was in. I lost friends when I was a cop. My son is there now...5th tour. Bad shit happens in a war.

But a couple of things. You asked for the opinions of others. If you don't want the answer, don't ask the question.

Furthermore, there is no way in the world we could've accomplished anything in Iraq without the locals owning the process. Do you just think we're gonna stay over there killing people and breaking stuff forever? So we had to turn over some of the process to the very people we were fighting against at one point. I've got news for ya...that's how we eventually get out.

To the shortsighted, it seems like a raw deal. For those with the understanding of how wars are eventually won, it's a necessary process. I challenge you to provide proof of how the Petraeus strategy in Iraq, taking into account the big picture as opposed to your negative experiences, didn't work. It did and it is. Iraq is safer now than it's been in years and the standard of living for Iraqis has increased dramatically.

I'm not saying it isn't still a dangerous place. And I'm glad I didn't have to go (I fought in a different war). But it has improved.

Do you actually just think we can kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out? Or, do want the US to leave prematurely and let everything we've gained be lost just so you can fulfill some misguided romantic fantasy and "fight some islamic warriors over here in the Rockies"? Do you seriously think that's the answer?

I got news for ya...if it gets to that, a brother isn't the only person important to you that you're gonna lose.

[SA Friday]

Omio,
I have a pretty good feeling you would benefit a lot from reading this:

'The Last Hundred Yards: The NCO's Contribution to Warfare' written by H.J. Poole

It's a good book, and I read it years ago. He has written a few others after this and they all cover different aspects of warfare. I suspect you can find it in your bases library, or in one of your SNCO's bookshelfs.

[Bailey Guns]

Or, from a completely different perspective, read Michael Yon's "Moment of Truth in Iraq". Yon is a former Green Beret turned freelance journalist who's spent the better part of this decade living (and in some cases, fighting) with guys in Iraq...mostly American and British forces.

I'll be happy to loan it to you.

[Batteriesnare]

I can not imagine anything worse.

Agree 100%.

[omio]

That bit of hate wasn't towards any of you. Just really the people running the show. John poole is a very smart man i read a few of his books but not the one you suggested yet. My favorite is Dragon days those fucking chinese ill fight the damn chinese in the rockies lol. I just don't agree with the bigger picture things can be done differently sometimes what they do up there is reminding me too much of history and it will go down the same way... I'll check out that other book too looks like its pretty interesting i was thinking of being a journalist I met a few, there are some fearless bad ass journalists out there they are crazy enough to jump into a firefight without a weapon lol. I still don't know why you guys wouldn't want to fight them here...
Well i guess the same way they didn't want me fighting over there lol

[Elhuero]

people who compare afghanistan to vietnam are idiots. totally different countries, totally different wars.

however the result of this new conflict will end up the same as vietnam.

we will lose.

not because the enemy defeated us, but because we defeated ourselves.

if we are to have victory, the kid gloves need to come off. the generals need to be put it charge, politics needs to go out the window. (ie we need to exponentially increase the asskicking)

we need to stick to bush's line "we will make no distinction between the terrorists and those that harbor them".

all these things that need to happen are all the things that obama will never do. he will screw the pooch and americans will die. just like clinton (WTC 93, mogidishu) and carter (iran)

personally I'd be delighted if we can track down the general area where bin laden is then use it for a field test of the neutron bomb.

[Mista Bukit]

I have been on the ground there recently and here are a few of my observations that haven’t been mentioned here.

Karzai is corrupt??? What a surprise!!! The Middle East and Muslims have their own way of doing business. The country is run top to bottom by thugs; everybody with any power over anybody else is Tony Soprano wanting “a piece of the action”
Corrupt governments are not unusual – take a look at our own.