Close
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 16

Thread: Fix NICS bill

  1. #1
    Machine Gunner esaabye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern Colorado Springs
    Posts
    1,050

    Default Fix NICS bill

    So help me understand the reasoning for/against the Fix NCIS.

    As I see it if you are a 2a person against it generally that is because you don’t think a check system is valid or useful?

    If you are a gun grabber against it it is because it fails to reduce gun availability and gives cover to the right that they did something?

    If you are a 2a supporter who supports it generally it is because you want to hold accountable the institutions responsible for reporting? You generally are ok with a background check idea or accept that it will not go away.

    If a gun grabber you think background check will stop bad guys and this is a first step, then close down private transfers...

    What am I missing if anything?

  2. #2
    Possesses Antidote for "Cool" Gman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Highlands Ranch
    Posts
    9,513

    Default

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    I think it was very important that the selected wording states "the right of the people" and it's also no accident that this right, like no other, "shall not be infringed".

    Which other rights require the blessing of the government to be exercised?

    Guns are property. Why is the government involved if I choose to sell it to someone else? Where else does this occur?



    Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk
    “Be not intimidated...nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency.
    These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice.”
    John Adams
    Feedback for Gman

  3. #3
    Grand Master Know It All kidicarus13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Littleton
    Posts
    4,386

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gman View Post

    Which other rights require the blessing of the government to be exercised?

    Guns are property. Why is the government involved if I choose to sell it to someone else? Where else does this occur?



    Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk
    Just off the top of my head... protest permits

    The gov't involves itself when selling vehicles, land, and houses.
    Lessons cost money. Good ones cost lots. -Tony Beets

  4. #4
    High Power Shooter DenverGP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Littleton, CO
    Posts
    900

    Default

    I agree that the best / most constitutional solution is to eliminate the background checks completely.

    But killing the "Fix NCIS" bill won't get rid of background checks, it just keeps them even more useless/pointless.

    Is the idea to make sure the data sucks, so the system won't work, and you think the dems will sign off on getting rid of it because it doesn't work? The dems care if it works. In fact better for them if it doesn't.
    Last edited by DenverGP; 03-13-2018 at 15:03.

  5. #5
    Possesses Antidote for "Cool" Gman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Highlands Ranch
    Posts
    9,513

    Default

    Want to hear a joke? "Government efficiency".

    Do you have the right to "vehicles, land, and houses"? As far as registration for taxation, totally different subject.

    The protest permit has some validity.
    Last edited by Gman; 03-13-2018 at 15:23.
    “Be not intimidated...nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency.
    These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice.”
    John Adams
    Feedback for Gman

  6. #6
    Grand Master Know It All Skip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    LITTLETON, CO
    Posts
    2,593

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by esaabye View Post
    [COLOR=#111111]So help me understand the reasoning for/against the Fix NCIS.

    [snip]
    I can explain that right after you explain to me the reasoning for background checks.

    Some people shouldn't have guns. But should live right next door.
    Some people shouldn't have guns. But never get in trouble when they try to get them.
    Some people shouldn't have guns. But they do.
    Fuckin' liberals...

  7. #7
    A FUN TITLE asmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Douglas County (Parker)
    Posts
    3,417

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gman View Post
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    I think it was very important that the selected wording states "the right of the people" and it's also no accident that this right, like no other, "shall not be infringed".

    Which other rights require the blessing of the government to be exercised?

    Guns are property. Why is the government involved if I choose to sell it to someone else? Where else does this occur?



    Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk
    Win all the Interwebs. Close the thread.
    What is my joy if all hands, even the unclean, can reach into it? What is my wisdom, if even the fools can dictate to me? What is my freedom, if all creatures, even the botched and impotent, are my masters? What is my life, if I am but to bow, to agree and to obey?
    -- Ayn Rand, Anthem (Chapter 11)

  8. #8
    Zombie Slayer Zundfolge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Colorado Springs
    Posts
    6,938

    Default

    The vast majority of people "stopped" from buying a gun by failing a NCIS check are innocent people, falsely flagged as prohibited persons.

    So lets add a bunch more questionable data into it (without any sort of judicial review nor due proccess) and that will mean MORE people denied their rights because the bureaucrats get it wrong.

    So yeah, its working exactly as designed.


    The argument for Fix-NCIS is that magic works and if we repeat the right incantations (and make up some new ones) the bad people won't be able to do bad things.

    edited to add: Ok maybe that's too harsh, the real reason to support Fix-NCIS is that NCIS and Brady are inconveniences that don't really do anything so if we tweak them we at least pretend we're supporting some tighter gun control and maybe the alligator will eat us last-er- the Democrats will be placated and drop the gun control issue for a while.
    Last edited by Zundfolge; 03-13-2018 at 19:51.
    Modern liberalism is based on the idea that reality is obligated to conform to one's beliefs because; "I have the right to believe whatever I want".

    "Everything the State says is a lie, and everything it has it has stolen.
    -Friedrich Nietzsche

    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people."
    -Penn Jillette

    A World Without Guns <- Great Read!

  9. #9
    Rebuilt from Salvage TFOGGER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Aurora
    Posts
    6,555

    Default

    Ok. I hate it. But for God's sake, it's the NICS (National Instant Check System), NOT NCIS (Naval Criminal Investigative Service)...

    If they truly wanted to "fix" the NICS, the first thing they would need to do is wipe the database. Some estimates put the error rate as high as 30 percent. In some ways, Colorado's system, with some local control, is better. But Colorado's system is far from perfect, as it leans heavily on the NICS database for convictions outside of Colorado. Unfortunately, we let the door open when the Brady Bill passed without significant challenge(abetted by the NRA).


    I recently had a chat with an antigun friend(who of course claimed NOT to be anti 2A, but wants to ban ARs) about background checks for private sales. I told him that as a responsible gun owner, I would like to try to make sure that I was not selling to a known "bad guy". I proposed a database that was A) Accurate, B) Transparent(unlike the mysterious"no fly" list), C)Real time, D)Publicly accessible, and E) could be checked anonymously(and for free over the internet). I truly believe that many gun owners would use such a service of their own accord. Instead we have a system which is inaccurate, opaque, has no real recourse or due process, is only accessible to those that pay hundreds of dollars for a dealer license and agree to keep records for many years, and can take anywhere from minutes to days to return a result that has a 30 percet chance of being incorrect.
    Last edited by TFOGGER; 03-13-2018 at 20:40.
    Light a fire for a man, and he'll be warm for a day, light a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life...

    Discussion is an exchange of intelligence. Argument is an exchange of
    ignorance. Ever found a liberal that you can have a discussion with?

  10. #10
    The "Godfather" of COAR Great-Kazoo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Valley of the Jolly (aka Greeley)
    Posts
    37,865

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TFOGGER View Post
    Ok. I hate it. But for God's sake, it's the NICS (National Instant Check System), NOT NCIS (Naval Criminal Investigative Service)...

    If they truly wanted to "fix" the NICS, the first thing they would need to do is wipe the database. Some estimates put the error rate as high as 30 percent. In some ways, Colorado's system, with some local control, is better. But Colorado's system is far from perfect, as it leans heavily on the NICS database for convictions outside of Colorado. Unfortunately, we let the door open when the Brady Bill passed without significant challenge(abetted by the NRA).


    I recently had a chat with an antigun friend(who of course claimed NOT to be anti 2A, but wants to ban ARs) about background checks for private sales. I told him that as a responsible gun owner, I would like to try to make sure that I was not selling to a known "bad guy". I proposed a database that was A) Accurate, B) Transparent(unlike the mysterious"no fly" list), C)Real time, D)Publicly accessible, and E) could be checked anonymously(and for free over the internet). I truly believe that many gun owners would use such a service of their own accord. Instead we have a system which is inaccurate, opaque, has no real recourse or due process, is only accessible to those that pay hundreds of dollars for a dealer license and agree to keep records for many years, and can take anywhere from minutes to days to return a result that has a 30 percet chance of being incorrect.
    And His response was....................
    The Great Kazoo's Feedback

    Imagination is the only Weapon, in the War Against Reality

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •