March for Our Lives

[Gman]

In my opinion the judicial system, congress, the press and the military leadership are corrupt or at best not representing the "citizens" of this country.

Every thing that the left say they needed to be safe was in place before the Parkland shooting. "See something, say something." Background checks. Yet, the government at all levels in Florida completely short-circuited the system or failed to act entirely.

"We need more government restrictions!"

...and we're being divisive by pointing out that the government is totally ineffective at providing the people safety. Murder is illegal, yet if you stack on a bunch of new laws, they'll obey them? Laws are only applicable to those people that police themselves.

"We need a ban on high-capacity magazines!" None of which were used in Parkland or in the worst school shooting in history, Virginia Tech. "We need to ban "assault weapons"!" which are defined by cosmetics. Virginia Tech shooting involved 2 handguns.

How do you rationalize that an adult between the ages of 18-20 has their right to self-preservation protected by the 2nd Amendment, but no ability to purchase the tools to do so? The recent shooting in Maryland negated that illusion anyway.

You can just give up and try to comfort these people because they're being emotional, but I'm not about to just let someone take away my freedom because they have the disillusioned idea that they'll somehow be safer.

The media coverage right now gives the impression that the occurrence or risk has suddenly become much higher. They do the same thing with shark attacks and child abductions some years.

If you try to have emotions/feelings as a basis for human existence, you can't build a viable society out of that.

John Adams had it right when he called out those that tried to get what they want due to social pressure;

“Be not intimidated...nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency.
These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice.”
― John Adams

[Fmedges]

Every thing that the left say they needed to be safe was in place before the Parkland shooting. "See something, say something." Background checks. Yet, the government at all levels in Florida completely short-circuited the system or failed to act entirely.

"We need more government restrictions!"

...and we're being divisive by pointing out that the government is totally ineffective at providing the people safety. Murder is illegal, yet if you stack on a bunch of new laws, they'll obey them? Laws are only applicable to those people that police themselves.

"We need a ban on high-capacity magazines!" None of which were used in Parkland or in the worst school shooting in history, Virginia Tech. "We need to ban "assault weapons"!" which are defined by cosmetics. Virginia Tech shooting involved 2 handguns.

How do you rationalize that an adult between the ages of 18-20 has their right to self-preservation protected by the 2nd Amendment, but no ability to purchase the tools to do so? The recent shooting in Maryland negated that illusion anyway.

You can just give up and try to comfort these people because they're being emotional, but I'm not about to just let someone take away my freedom because they have the disillusioned idea that they'll somehow be safer.

The media coverage right now gives the impression that the occurrence or risk has suddenly become much higher. They do the same thing with shark attacks and child abductions some years.

If you try to have emotions/feelings as a basis for human existence, you can't build a viable society out of that.

John Adams had it right when he called out those that tried to get what they want due to social pressure;
[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]

What the hell are you talking about? Did you actually read what I wrote or did you just make stufff up? When did I say I was comforting anybody? This is the kind of bullshit I’m talking about. This is how we come together as firearms owners and present a unified front? You need to adapt your thinking. The useful idiots don’t give a shit about facts. The illusion of safety makes them feel better.

[Gman]

The illusion of safety makes them feel better.

I can't fix that.

Now hit us with something insightful.

[Rumline]

the divisiveness on both sides is at epic retard levels.

False equivalence.

[Skip]

What could gun owners do to be less divisive
Live in reality. Maybe it's just the fact that stupid people make more noise, but the whole "I can't wait until they kick down my door because then it's go time." That mentality is stupid at best. Gun owners as a group could never pull off the kind of measly rally that just happened in DC. All of these gun groups are their own worst enemy. They spend more time collecting money and fighting between themselves for membership than they do anything else. These groups are supposed to what? Escape the authorities where every they live and meet up in the woods to use their guerilla tactics to cripple the government and restore the Constitution? Give me a break. To accomplish this everyone would need to be self-less in their sacrifice. What do we see today? "We'll it's not my state so that sucks." "Only libs live in Commifornia". The exact opposite. The rights have already been infringed so when exactly is it time? "When it's time you'll know." All dumb shit that is said.

The reality of it is that we live in a society in which people are told every opinion (if you agree with me) matters. Feelings matter more than logic and security trumps freedom and privacy. Slowly most people are buying into it. Does it surprise you that the reasoning for the laws they want are grounded in feelings? Most people have internet accounts to share their actions or opinions throughout the day. I'm am not a fan of this, but then again who gives a shit other than me about my opinion? Our society clearly likes it.

In my opinion the judicial system, congress, the press and the military leadership are corrupt or at best not representing the "citizens" of this country. The patriot act destroy's the bill of rights and that's just the start, but what's the solution? At what point are you advocating for a way of life that no longer exists and the masses don't want it to exist? I don't believe that is today, but how many years? When I was younger I had to learn my lesson in doing and maybe the best way to learn is by hardship. I don't believe the government is hell bent on imprisoning and murdering it's citizens. After all who would pay them taxes?

You sound like you are doing great work, but the cards are stacked against all of us. Nobody cares about your logic so honestly it's just a waste of time. Our society as a whole has to come to the decision that it doesn't want the government to run out of control, but as it sits today it's not going that way.

You and I actually have a lot of the same concerns. I admit I don't have all the answers either other than to stand firm, be sincere, and explain that my position is not out of ignorance.

We do have a leadership vacuum and it needs to be filled with real people. Dana Loesch is a great example. And I don't have enough time in my day to show you what Libs have said about her, how they have threatened her family, and wished her dead for it. But we don't encourage good leadership by abandoning a fight. Misguided can be fixed, apathy not so much.

A lot of your frustration seems to be leveled at the orgs, and I share it. That's why I let my NRA membership lapse for the first time in ? years. Sure don't see them much these last few weeks either! The thing that brings me comfort is that the NRA was always gun owners/supporters, or at least the ones willing to part with the fees. Those people and their values still exist even if not being effectively represented.

I really don't see a way to address the issue that doesn't involve discussing door kicking because that is very much what is being demanded. I can't be upset that someone calls Libs out on that and challenges them to admit they want violence on gun owners (today, others tomorrow). I also can't be upset at folks who are asking good questions about morality and aggression and discussing the issue. For example, a school shooting is a horrible exception (crime) committed by an individual. But making someone a felon and stacking up on his door is intentional, targeted, state violence. In order for Libs to really win on guns they have to be the tyrants we fear which legitimizes resistance. Tough subject and I'm not surprised people are put off by it, get upset, and make incendiary comments. I'm probably guilty of this at times as well but really try to be disciplined when talking to the other side.

The dominance of feelings exists because the people who feel have been sheltered from reality by design. It is part of our fight. Stepping back doesn't help them nor does it help us. How many of us have observed we are fighting for the rights of young people against young people? I get the social media thing. It's hard and full of double-standards. It's really shitty to spend time posting about the history of 2A only to be called an ammosexual or child murderer let alone have people threaten to "dox" you. But it's part of the marketplace of ideas in 2018. How unfair would it be to sit back, say nothing, watch the world go to shit, and say "I told you?"

There's also a bit of filtering and selection going on in the socials. It's really not representative of either side. Think about the person who has all day to post on the internet. Now think about the people in life you know who kick ass. Not the same person. I've had some time off the last few work days so I've been able to keep up with things more than usual. I need to get back to work!

Don't forget that our way of life does indeed exist in the hearts and minds of ~50% of the people in this country (judging by popular vote splits). The media and socials have intentionally tipped the scales to make us feel otherwise. When you hear 90% negative reporting on Trump for 2017 that means something and isn't organic. FB had a whole team to do the same in 2016. Twitter was caught "shadow banning." They want us to feel small, stupid, and insignificant and it works! It wouldn't be propaganda if it didn't. Then we ask why we're not organized! The level of negative psychology we're fighting here is massive. There's nothing sexy about being a Conservative or wanting small government. Very hard to promote a system where people pay their own bills and work. UNLESS we explain the merits and the hams of collectivism.

I've said before the country needs an amicable divorce (flame suit on but that's really the best solution for all involved IMHO).

This doesn't mean America is dead, and the other side knows this too which is why they won't stop at guns. China, Cuba, Russia, etc... They didn't just have to win the revolution but had to eliminate anyone who would advocate for better, bygone times.

[Gman]

You and I actually have a lot of the same concerns. I admit I don't have all the answers either other than to stand firm, be sincere, and explain that my position is not out of ignorance.

We do have a leadership vacuum and it needs to be filled with real people. Dana Loesch is a great example. And I don't have enough time in my day to show you what Libs have said about her, how they have threatened her family, and wished her dead for it. But we don't encourage good leadership by abandoning a fight. Misguided can be fixed, apathy not so much.

A lot of your frustration seems to be leveled at the orgs, and I share it. That's why I let my NRA membership lapse for the first time in ? years. Sure don't see them much these last few weeks either! The thing that brings me comfort is that the NRA was always gun owners/supporters, or at least the ones willing to part with the fees. Those people and their values still exist even if not being effectively represented.

I really don't see a way to address the issue that doesn't involve discussing door kicking because that is very much what is being demanded. I can't be upset that someone calls Libs out on that and challenges them to admit they want violence on gun owners (today, others tomorrow). I also can't be upset at folks who are asking good questions about morality and aggression and discussing the issue. For example, a school shooting is a horrible exception (crime) committed by an individual. But making someone a felon and stacking up on his door is intentional, targeted, state violence. In order for Libs to really win on guns they have to be the tyrants we fear which legitimizes resistance. Tough subject and I'm not surprised people are put off by it, get upset, and make incendiary comments. I'm probably guilty of this at times as well but really try to be disciplined when talking to the other side.

The dominance of feelings exists because the people who feel have been sheltered from reality by design. It is part of our fight. Stepping back doesn't help them nor does it help us. How many of us have observed we are fighting for the rights of young people against young people? I get the social media thing. It's hard and full of double-standards. It's really shitty to spend time posting about the history of 2A only to be called an ammosexual or child murderer let alone have people threaten to "dox" you. But it's part of the marketplace of ideas in 2018. How unfair would it be to sit back, say nothing, watch the world go to shit, and say "I told you?"

There's also a bit of filtering and selection going on in the socials. It's really not representative of either side. Think about the person who has all day to post on the internet. Now think about the people in life you know who kick ass. Not the same person. I've had some time off the last few work days so I've been able to keep up with things more than usual. I need to get back to work!

Don't forget that our way of life does indeed exist in the hearts and minds of ~50% of the people in this country (judging by popular vote splits). The media and socials have intentionally tipped the scales to make us feel otherwise. When you hear 90% negative reporting on Trump for 2017 that means something and isn't organic. FB had a whole team to do the same in 2016. Twitter was caught "shadow banning." They want us to feel small, stupid, and insignificant and it works! It wouldn't be propaganda if it didn't. Then we ask why we're not organized! The level of negative psychology we're fighting here is massive. There's nothing sexy about being a Conservative or wanting small government. Very hard to promote a system where people pay their own bills and work. UNLESS we explain the merits and the hams of collectivism.

I've said before the country needs an amicable divorce (flame suit on but that's really the best solution for all involved IMHO).

This doesn't mean America is dead, and the other side knows this too which is why they won't stop at guns. China, Cuba, Russia, etc... They didn't just have to win the revolution but had to eliminate anyone who would advocate for better, bygone times.

LIKE...BIG TIME

Sent from my electronic leash using Tapatalk

[Squeeze]

I have a feeling shit is going to come to a head and it's not gonna be good for either side. We as gun owners will be demonized even more so than we are now. The Progressive Liberals will all cry "foul", point fingers at us and yell to the government, "SEE, I TOLD YOU SO!", even though we will likely be the ones in the right (at least that is what I hope). As we have seen in recent social media videos and posts, ANTIFA folks are not only prone to violence, but they are buying firearms. "IF" they get froggy enough to fire the first shot, it will likely not end well for them, but I pray it does not come to that. Something that Fmedges mentioned, we are our own worst enemies. If gun owners could put aside the petty BS differences and come to the common agreement we need to stand together, a lot would get accomplished. After these anti-gun, anti-Constitution, Progressive Liberal loonies no longer get the attention they are now, we can all go back to arguing about 9mm vs. .45 ACP, AR vs. AK, etc.

We are fighting an uphill battle. The media is not promoting our side in the least bit. Folks like us are being ignored by the media because we bring facts to the table. Any talking head that promotes gun control, abolishing the 2nd Amendment, all in the name of "saving the children" get news camera priority coverage. One of the girls at the "March for our Lives" rally actually vomited on camera and was cheered by the crowd. Teachers are using children to promote a political agenda and parents are allowing it. The children who are refusing to conform to the agenda are being punished. The ignorance that is being praised right now is truly appalling. The rapid decay of our society is the taboo topic which everyone seems to be avoiding like the plague.

[OtterbatHellcat]

The rapid decay of our society is the taboo topic which everyone seems to be avoiding like the plague.

Lately (last couple of years)...I'd use the word accelerated.

[Ridge]

Anyone else see one of the survivors admitting in DC that they bullied the shooter?

[Aloha_Shooter]

What could gun owners do to be less divisive

Your whole response fails with the title. It's not gun owners being divisive (with the exception of open carry activists that insist on pushing their points KNOWING they're hitting hot buttons).