Sad or funny? "Tolerant San Francisco fed up with dirty, smelly streets"

[Ah Pook]

Hell, we are tired of it here! Transients shitting, shooting up, leaving trash and being a general nuisance is common place up here. Sadly, there are some that enable this but by and large most are done with it.

Boulder has a $2mil homeless shelter that shuts down in April. Guess where the problem goes? Up the hill.

[CoGirl303]

Hell, we are tired of it here! Transients shitting, shooting up, leaving trash and being a general nuisance is common place up here. Sadly, there are some that enable this but by and large most are done with it.

Boulder has a $2mil homeless shelter that shuts down in April. Guess where the problem goes? Up the hill.

the nice and clean way to deal with that is euthanasia by drug overdose of their choice, but no one has the stones to carry it out because it's "inhumane" and all the bleeding hearts don't like to talk about and discuss things like that or like it when others talk that way.


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[StagLefty]

the nice and clean way to deal with that is euthanasia by drug overdose of their choice, but no one has the stones to carry it out because it's "inhumane" and all the bleeding hearts don't like to talk about and discuss things like that or like it when others talk that way.


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I don't consider myself a "bleeding heart" but I don't consider euthanasia as a problem solver for humans.
Would you also consider this a solution to seniors who have a terminal disease ? If so I'd better be cautious about any contact with you !!!

[CoGirl303]

I don't consider myself a "bleeding heart" but I don't consider euthanasia as a problem solver for humans.
Would you also consider this a solution to seniors who have a terminal disease ? If so I'd better be cautious about any contact with you !!!

Ummm no. I don't equate having a terminal disease to choosing to be a lowlife useless junkie with a boohoo, the world sucks so I'm gonna shoot up because I can't cope with my problems attitude.


Now if someone who is terminal chooses euthanasia, that's fine. I get and sympathize with not wanting to suffer through your last days.

I dont sympathize with junkies who shoot up and choose not to function and be responsible with the rest of civilized society.


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[Grant H.]

Why is it considered entirely ethical for a pet owner to undertake euthanasia, but entirely unethical for a person to choose it? This one of society's moores is one of the most illogical, and it's not really rooted in *anything*. Forced euthanasia is clearly wrong, but so is forcing someone to be alive who doesn't wish to be - e.g. terminal patient forced to practically be on life support until every last penny of their estate can be eeked out for medical costs. If it's wrong for a pet to do that, why is it conversely "right" to do the opposite, and force Grandpa to suffer against his own will? Where in religious studies does it declare that all interventions possible must be utilized to forcibly keep someone alive?

I'll throw in the same disclaimer as you did. I'm not picking on you in particular, but you touched on a part of this that pisses me off. (Again, CYA with the MODS, not pissed with you, just the general idea)...

Animals aren't humans. They don't have, and don't need/deserve, the same rights as humans.

While I, in general, agree with you that people should be allowed to choose to end it, especially in the case of terminal patients, comparing this to putting an animal down is just wrong. Many on here won't agree with me on this, but some will, God gave Man dominion of the earth, and the beasts of the field.

As for euthanasia of drug addicts... If they do it, either by choice or accident, no great loss in my opinion.

However, forced euthanasia as COGirl suggests, is tantamount to murder.

[CoGirl303]

I try not to cast my morals upon other people, by far and large. (I'm not picking on you, btw).

Why is it considered entirely ethical for a pet owner to undertake euthanasia, but entirely unethical for a person to choose it? This one of society's moores is one of the most illogical, and it's not really rooted in *anything*. Forced euthanasia is clearly wrong, but so is forcing someone to be alive who doesn't wish to be - e.g. terminal patient forced to practically be on life support until every last penny of their estate can be eeked out for medical costs. If it's wrong for a pet to do that, why is it conversely "right" to do the opposite, and force Grandpa to suffer against his own will? Where in religious studies does it declare that all interventions possible must be utilized to forcibly keep someone alive?

In our generation, we need to be careful not to adapt morals and moores that are merely expected of us "just because", we need to apply some reasoning. We are not that far removed from outright superstition in medicine and bizarre practices premised on the most moronic of assumptions - grandpa got sick because of evil spirits, and he deserves his suffering. That literally was a blink of an eye ago; and those carry-overs have not yet left our society. How many people don't walk under ladders, for instance? [although there is some slim logic to that].

Point being, it's not our place to force decisions upon other people based on how we want the decision to be for ourselves. We don't have the slightest right to dictate their morals when the only affected individual is themselves. I do absolutely agree we need to fight any *push* towards, e.g. recommending euthanasia. But if someone elects it of their own free will, people need to stop shitting all over their choice.

ETA:

I find your viewpoint interesting considering you'd have no problem putting all cluster b type personalities on some sort of secluded island away from civilization or worse...yet drug addicts who serve only as a burden to society, causing great amounts of pain and hurt to their loved ones and have no desire to help themselves get a hall pass. (not to mention all the other sanitary issued they create as mentioned in the articles).

Didn't you say society could move forward so much without cluster b's in it...but I guess it couldn't if all the drug addicts were gone...

I get that these are people...humans, and they have a serious problem...but at what point and what cost do we continue to invest in people who only care about bringing their own self-assured destruction to get high? to get their "fix"? regardless of the ones they love and that love them, only for the cycle to continue to repeat itself over and over and over and over.




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[hurley842002]

Opioids kill 2x as many people as cars or guns now. You don't find me giving a hall pass, you find me cautioning people to never use them and bitch slap the people that offer them for every ailment.

Also, you can't lump "drug addicts" into one category. Many of your transients in San Fransisco may indeed be "drug addicts", but most of the 74,000 dying every year are employed right along side you, maintaining a home and have a family - you don't have a clue which of your coworkers and friends are addicted. Most of the people who are dying in the opiod crisis follow this vector:

1) Injury + debilitating pain
2) Doctor
3) Doctor prescribes opiods
4) They need to stay on opiods for a long time to deal with the pain
a) Some accidentally overdose here, simply by taking too much too soon by accident.
5) The doctor eventually ceases prescription for opiods
6) They go into serious withdrawl + debilitating pain
7) They try to find other sources for pain management
d) They end up with something like Fentanyl that can kill with a sniff of it, or Heroin, which is far stronger than anything in the 70's

You too can easily become a drug addict by beginning with step 1. And unless you've suffered true, debilitating pain for long periods of time, you've got no place to talk. Broadly inferring that "drug addicts" should generally "die" and society improves shows you are as educated on the topic as an African Bushman would be on exotic car repair, but not afraid to show ignorance.

The resulting addiction is caused by doctors. Ensares people who had no desire to ever use drugs in their life. Doctors force the change that leads to an OD; and these people are psychologically normal and treatable.

Contrast that to Cluster-B who have a permanent defect in their prefrontal cortext which prohibits them from ever feeling higher emotion, is untreatable, and is responsible for the majority of all of societys crime and ill's, including drug production and dealing, for that matter, vs the stereotypical typecast black transient drug addict that you must be envisioning the 74,000 annual dead to be.

PS: Most of the people involved in the crisis are not minorities, nor are they "inner city". Time for the stereotypes to end.

You've won an award today. A hulk handed facepalm.

Thanks for posting this, I was prepared to respond to 303 in a fashion that would have likely gotten me a time out, but I set the phone down, and went to bed.

My 26 year old brother fell somewhere on your list up there, unfortunately it cost him his life, all because of a service related injury, that the VA would rather give opioids for, than actually try to fix (surgically).

So no 303girl, you have no idea what you are talking about, and shame on you for thinking you know what the families of addicts are going through.

[Grant H.]

Thanks for posting this, I was prepared to respond to 303 in a fashion that would have likely gotten me a time out, but I set the phone down, and went to bed.

My 26 year old brother fell somewhere on your list up there, unfortunately it cost him his life, all because of a service related injury, that the VA would rather give opioids for, than actually try to fix (surgically).

So no 303girl, you have no idea what you are talking about, and shame on you for thinking you know what the families of addicts are going through.

I'm sorry for your loss.

Opioids are no joke. I've been put on fentanyl and dilaudid during my hospital trips, and they are powerful substances.

What's even scarier is how easily the doctors prescribe the stuff.

[CoGirl303]

Hall pass for drug addicts? Say what?? My post was essentially advocating the right to suicide/euthanasia - e.g. the biggest right of all, the right to control ones own life. It is indeed off topic from the OP but responding to earlier posts on the same. AFAIK I did not mention drug addicts at all, my post was clearly of intentional suicide.

Chill. Pill.

Opioids kill 2x as many people as cars or guns now. You don't find me giving a hall pass, you find me cautioning people to never use them and bitch slap the people that offer them for every ailment.

Also, you can't lump "drug addicts" into one category. Many of your transients in San Fransisco may indeed be "drug addicts", but most of the 74,000 dying every year are employed right along side you, maintaining a home and have a family - you don't have a clue which of your coworkers and friends are addicted. Most of the people who are dying in the opiod crisis follow this vector:

1) Injury + debilitating pain
2) Doctor
3) Doctor prescribes opiods
4) They need to stay on opiods for a long time to deal with the pain
a) Some accidentally overdose here, simply by taking too much too soon by accident.
5) The doctor eventually ceases prescription for opiods
6) They go into serious withdrawl + debilitating pain
7) They try to find other sources for pain management
d) They end up with something like Fentanyl that can kill with a sniff of it, or Heroin, which is far stronger than anything in the 70's

You too can easily become a drug addict by beginning with step 1. And unless you've suffered true, debilitating pain for long periods of time, you've got no place to talk. Broadly inferring that "drug addicts" should generally "die" and society improves shows you are as educated on the topic as an African Bushman would be on exotic car repair, but not afraid to show ignorance.

The resulting addiction is caused by doctors. Ensares people who had no desire to ever use drugs in their life. Doctors force the change that leads to an OD; and these people are psychologically normal and treatable.

Contrast that to Cluster-B who have a permanent defect in their prefrontal cortext which prohibits them from ever feeling higher emotion, is untreatable, and is responsible for the majority of all of societys crime and ill's, including drug production and dealing, for that matter, vs the stereotypical typecast black transient drug addict that you must be envisioning the 74,000 annual dead to be.

PS: Most of the people involved in the crisis are not minorities, nor are they "inner city". Time for the stereotypes to end.

I'm not so sure there's truly an "opioid crisis" going on. had several surgeries in my adult life and been prescriped oxycodone, hydrocodone and tramadol as the most prevalent, never been hooked or addicted.

How many of these patients don't read the instructions on the bottle and take it as directed? How many think they're supposed to take it till it's gone? I personally know people that do this. If people would take them as directed...many wouldn't get addicted. I'm hard pressed to blame it all on doctors.

After each of my surgeries I maybe took mine for a week or two at most then transitioned over to 800 mg tablets of ibuprofen or naproxen. Narcotics cause constipation and that leads to nasty painful hemmorhoids, which is why I get off them as quick as possible.


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[cstone]

I'm not so sure there's truly an "opioid crisis" going on. had several surgeries in my adult life and been prescriped oxycodone, hydrocodone and tramadol as the most prevalent, never been hooked or addicted.

How many of these patients don't read the instructions on the bottle and take it as directed? How many think they're supposed to take it till it's gone? I personally know people that do this. If people would take them as directed...many wouldn't get addicted. I'm hard pressed to blame it all on doctors.

After each of my surgeries I maybe took mine for a week or two at most then transitioned over to 800 mg tablets of ibuprofen or naproxen. Narcotics cause constipation and that leads to nasty painful hemmorhoids, which is why I get off them as quick as possible.


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Congratulations!

Your story is one story and not necessarily representative of others. I have met very few people who choose to become addicts and most addicts I've known would do anything, except give up their monkey, to be free.

No simple answers. If there were, we would create more complex problems.

Be safe.