All Things Educational

[TheGrey]

I'll have to check that one out. But for this discussion....

Good questions for kids considering college. Here are some more....

Do your interests and passions center on areas taught in Trade Schools versus colleges? Cooks, plumbers, carpenters, electricians, mechanics, etc. will ALWAYS be able to find gainful employment.

If you are unsure of "just going to college because your friends are," have you considered going straight into the workforce for a year or two? Make some money. Grow up. Learn more about your lasting interests and passions. THEN maybe you'll realize college is (or isn't) for you.... (Dennis Prager notes how young people who do this are MUCH better prepared for college. They've actually experienced "the real world" more than most of their professors. They are less gullible and less influenced by the Leftism rampant in American colleges.)

Peter Drucker says (paraphrasing) most people don't know what their strengths are. (He's right.) He also points out more people know their weaknesses better than their strengths -- but adds that most of the time those people are wrong about THOSE, too(!). [Gasp!]

Don't be alarmed. There are personality profiles which can help you figure out your strengths and weaknesses. Even the ubiquitous DiSC tools are more helpful than blind shooting to determine your next courses of action. (Don't bank on Myers-Briggs. That tool is the best marketed survey out there ... and it isn't valid. Sorry, but this is what I do for a living. Ask me why if you want to know more....) Prevue, QMQ, Assess, Caliper, ProfileXT, etc. are all good tools to help you figure out more about how you're wired.


I am a grandparent -- and a high school coach. So I see this from two perspectives.

I'm astounded at how government school teachers are brainwashed that they are producing "critical thinkers," when they are not. But they truly believe they ARE.

Government education is actually indoctrination ... in Leftism. I coached in an [Get ready to "Ooh!" and "Aahhh!"] International Baccalaureate school for 13 years. What a Teachers Union stroke of genius marketing that labeling was! Those teachers and kids are told they are the best of the best. (They are not.)

These last 4 years I've coached at a Christian school. These kids are told to work their butts off and most of them do.

I'm headed into a full-blown rant, so I'd better stop. If you want to know more, ask.

Please continue- I'm interested, and so is CavSct1983.

I am also interested in hearing more about how Myers-Briggs is invalid, and what some of the other tests are. I don't recognize any of them!

[Gman]

Inquiring minds want to know. Please share.

[TheGrey]

I have no use for college now that I have learned everything there is to know, and the answer is 42.

[Honey Badger282.8]

I'm 29 and starting my second year of college and work as a tutor in the campus writing center, and in my opinion, education is one of those things where an individual gets what they give. If the kid is just doing the minimum to get a degree, he will likely view college with some contempt and deem it "useless." I've seen many kids that are in college because that's what has been beaten into their heads by mentors, teachers, counselors, and parents. College isn't for everyone but it also isn't something to be derided. For a college education to be truly meaningful the individual should be internally motivated as opposed to externally motivated. Those that are internally motivated will find creative ways to work within assignment guidelines, even when they disagree with the content. Quite a few of the younger students expect everything to be spoonfed to them, but on the other side of the proverbial coin, I've seen many of the older students (those that have real-world experience) expect the same thing, albeit to a lesser extent. I think that obtaining a degree has become more important than being educated.

At the K-12 level, I think the No Child Left Behind Act really did a number on education in America (teaching to the test, elimination of everything but core subjects, holding teacher responsible for bad parenting, etc.), but I am cautiously optimistic about the Every Student Succeeds Act. It's a step in the right direction and encourages states to adopt a more well-rounded idea of teaching by focusing on subjects other than reading, writing, and arithmetic.

[Vic Tory]

I'll start with TheGrey's 2nd question. Some education in these personality / psychometric surveys is in order.

Two technical terms are key to the effectiveness of these kinds of surveys: Reliability and Validity.
Reliability is a measure of ... repeatability. If "Joe" scores the same in six weeks, or six months, the tool is probably Reliable. To be scientifically considered to be so, its Reliability score should be at least .70. If a survey is not Reliable, it cannot be Valid.

Validity is an expression of whether or not the measured characteristics actually do measure what the tool claims. (Is a score on Sociability actually measuring that characteristic? Or is it measuring Gregariousness? Extroversion? Something else?)

The Myers-Briggs (MBTI) folks are cagey about reporting on their Reliability. When pressed they will say something like, "In 3/4 of our scales we are Reliable 75% of the time." So what we do is multiply .75 x .75 = .5625 to determine the MBTI's actual Reliability is .56 ... which is barely better than a coin flip.

The strange part is the origin of the MBTI. I cannot remember who was who, but Mom (Let's call her Briggs.) and Daughter (Myers) wanted to figure out why the daughter's husband was so strange an animal to the two of them. So they developed this tool called Myers-Briggs. The trouble is, neither of them knew what they were doing.

Somehow the MBTI did in the 1970s what today we'd call "going viral." Some corporate types liked being able to put employees in boxes. They started using it. Some companies even had the name plates on managers' offices read "Joe Brown, ENTJ."


DiSC
Many of you have heard of DiSC. I'll bet some of you have actually done them.

Have you done the survey at church with Golden Retriever, Beaver, Otter, Lion labels? That's just DiSC, relabeled. Red, Yellow, Green Blue? Yup. Many of the 4-factor personality surveys you've heard of are really DiSC tools.

William Marston (Yes, the creator of Wonder Woman.) is credited with "inventing" or "developing" DiSC in the late 1920s. But the truth is, he borrowed it from an assistant to Hippocrates. Yes. DiSC is that old! Hippocrates' assistant labeled people as Choleric, Melancholy, Phlegmatic or Sanguine. Marston simply reformatted something which was centuries old. Since nobody *used* terms like Choleric, Melancholy, Phlegmatic or Sanguine anymore Marston changed them to
Dominance (D), Inducement (I), Submission (S), and Compliance (C). After a few decades of tweaking most DiSC tools use terms like Dominance, Influence, Steadiness and Compliance.

There are over 3,500 different versions of DiSC surveys on the market. They range from FREE -- to about $85 a piece. Many of them are actually good; most are in the "You get what you pay for" category.

DiSC surveys are great for getting a sense of how someone ... responds to stress ... likes to be motivated ... and gets along with co-workers. DiSC should never be used for hiring. In fact, any good DiSC Technical Manual states NOT to use it for hiring. That doesn't stop a lot of employers from using DiSC for hiring. (Too bad. Interviewing increases stress, which will give employers false readings of how an applicant really does handle normal stress....)

More later ... if you want.

[Honey Badger282.8]

Vic Troy, do you have any experience with Clifton Strengths?

[MrPrena]

Irving's thread about the liberal arts degrees was really interesting- lots of viewpoints.

I'd like to expand on the topic, and I invite your opinion on all things educational.

Do you want a degree? What kind, and why? Do you like to attend classes, whether your career needs them or not? What's your favorite subject, and why? Do you continue studies on your own time? Do you have memories of a favorite teacher you'd like to share? Are you seeking a class on a particular subject?

What about those among us that are parents: tell us about the differences you notice among the subjects they are now teaching your children. Is there a subject yu feel they should still be teaching your children? Are the teachers still as you remember them in grade school, middle school, high school? Do you find yourself supplementing your child's education? Do we have any homeschoolers here? Tell us what that's like.

Sure, i want to go to school. I just don't want to go through that 4-8+years (depends on what you're studying) of financial hardship again. When i was in school, the tuition was about 15% of what it costs now. Paying ~667% of what I paid back then plus paying bills etc would is too crazy. Now, IF i had lots of $$$ in hand, I would make appointment with 3 major school dept head this week. I DO HAVE TIME, but I don't want to get a loan or drop 250k+ on edumacation (degree of choosing).

[SAnd]

I graduated from a local two year vocational school course after high school. There were about 18 to 25 people in each class. So I had experience with 3 groups going through the course while I was there. So what I have to say is based on that very limited group of people. Also I graduated in 1974.

Getting to the point. Half the people came out of two years of college. In other words it took 2 years of college for them to figure out what they wanted to do. Fortunately there was the vocational school system there for them. I don't know if there is anything like vocational schools anymore. The year after I graduated all the vocational schools became Technical Institutes.

[Ah Pook]

Please continue- I'm interested, and so is CavSct1983.

I am also interested in hearing more about how Myers-Briggs is invalid, and what some of the other tests are. I don't recognize any of them!

I have taken the MB test about four times in my life. Every result was different.

[TheGrey]

I have taken the MB test about four times in my life. Every result was different.

See, I've taken it four times at different times in my life, and they all had the same result. Weird!