Diesel pickups are for chumps

[hurley842002]

As someone who has driven 2,500 miles across the US as recent as a few months ago in an EV I'm curious what you envision a road trip in one to look like that you think you need more range and faster charging than what is currently available. I've heard a lot of negativity surrounding EVs as far as range & charging go so I'm curious how that looks from someone who feels it's a driving factor.

Agreed on the unwarranted hate to EVs. It really is beyond me why some hate the very idea like it kicked their dog or something.

Our longest trip is here to Southern California, sometimes we drive from here to Grand Junction, stay the night, and make the rest of the drive, sometimes we drive from here to St. George UT, and then finish the trip. I couldn't drive to St. George on a single charge with any of the common EV's out right now. I haven't researched the drive using an EV, and perhaps it is possible if you strategize, but with a 4 and 5 year old, we need a bit more flexibility than current EV's will allow.

[Jer]

Unless there is an emergency piss stop and our destinations, yes.

At the risk of sounding argumentative I'm not buying that. You stopped for five times for 10 minutes TOTAL over 2,100 miles and didn't stop for a minute longer anywhere else along the way? I have a hard time believing that nobody has blood clots if that's the case.

Did this recently. Left 12/7 for Haskell, TX. Stayed for a few days, left for Kilgore, TX. After a few days, visited Jacksonville TX. Another few to Bandera, TX. Returned on 12/16.
If you take a peek at those areas and the routes between, the EV charging infrastructure isn't really there, without further delays.
Would I like an EV for my 70 mile round trip commute? Sure, but all of our family is spread out in relatively rural areas that it doesn't work for us, as we visit multiple times a year.

For fun I plugged your location with your destinations into Tesla's trip planner using the smallest capacity (read: shortest range) vehicle they make and it plotted a route to all of your destinations using Superchargers. Not only could you make the trip but you could make it 100% free. This is especially true if you stayed at each destination a day or two as you stated as you can charge at each one overnight or for several days and require even less Supercharger stops between legs. You don't have to just rely on the Supercharger networks to make trips and if you branch out from there there's electricity at far more locations than gas stations. People just need to change their way of thinking of things. This one-ff exercise was also not your daily commute which any Tesla could handle w/o batting an eyelash.

So saying that the EV charging infrastructure isn't there isn't accurate. Not only is the EV infrastructure there for that crazy complex trip you laid out in the sticks but enough Tesla Superchargers exist to make it completely free. This seems like a great place to point out that Tesla announced recently that they will once again double the number of Superchargers across the US in 2019 and they will also increase the speed at which they charge "significantly" so while today's network is more than enough for that incredibly random trip you laid out but it's improving quite literally by the week.

ETA: I have a screen shot of the planned trip for your review but this site caps image uploads at 250kb and I guess this image is above that and I'm too lazy to resize it.

[Jer]

I like the idea of off road vehicles, but how realistic would it be to camp for a week like when hunting? My early hunting trip I bring extra fuel and top up at the cabin. On days with lots of driving I've had to stop in a small town to refuel.

Let me start over. How about something like Jeep Easter Safari where you are camping at night and wheeling all day. The wheeling isn't mileage heavy, but you're still living out of your vehicle for days.

Of course those aren't normal driving conditions, but since we're talking about things you couldn't currently do with an EV. Even all those examples I gave don't really mean much because most people who have that hobby have a second vehicle for those kinds of trips anyway.

I agree with your last point that I would have a dedicated toy for that but to see if an EV would be a viable candidate... is there electricity at the cabin you stay at? Can you find a campground or RV park near where you hunt at all? If not then the answer is probably that you wouldn't be able to do that with an EV. At least not with the technology available today. Like I've said before, they're not the end-all be-all for everyone and every situation but they will cover probably better than 90% of user's needs.

[Jer]

Our longest trip is here to Southern California, sometimes we drive from here to Grand Junction, stay the night, and make the rest of the drive, sometimes we drive from here to St. George UT, and then finish the trip. I couldn't drive to St. George on a single charge with any of the common EV's out right now. I haven't researched the drive using an EV, and perhaps it is possible if you strategize, but with a 4 and 5 year old, we need a bit more flexibility than current EV's will allow.

So, again, why do you think you need to drive that 641 miles on a single charge? You don't drive that far on a single tank of gas so why do you put an unfair comparison on an EV?

With a Tesla you get in, put in your destination and it automatically calculates all of the stops you need to make, what time you will get there, how long you will need to be there charging and even the percentage of your remaining charge when you get there. You don't have to think about anything. Just drive. Every couple of hours you stop for 15-30 min which the lion's share of you stops in that 20 minute range. That's about when you'd want a quick break anyway even if you were in an ICE vehicle.

As far as flexibility goes... what do you need? You can still stop whenever or wherever you want. You start to find where Superchargers are near where you want to stop for whatever reason though and the nav unit will automatically recalculate your trip with fewer stops for less time based on the short stop you just made. It's really quite simple in practice. We end up at little malls and shopping areas that have either fast food or dining and shops if that's your thing too.

All of this talk of range and we haven't even got into how much faster, smoother, quieter and awesome-er these cars are.

[sniper7]

Jer I like you and I get why you are defending your new found love. But there are some realistic differences that apply to some of us.
I couldn’t take an EV vehicle in my hunting trips. An EV vehicle won’t remotely come close to pulling what I can and do pull for as long as I can pull, as far as I can pull and in the fastest given time that I can pull with a present day diesel truck. That’s what this thread was about, that’s what the comparison is about. It is hands down in 100% favor of a modern day diesel truck over a concert EV truck for what I do.

Now for cost, you can’t say an EV has no cost. Just because someone subsidizes the energy bill at a charging location doesn’t mean there isn’t a cost somewhere.
A huge cost goes into a charging station at a residence. An even bigger one for pit stops or rest areas or subsidized stations. Those costs add up and draw plenty of power. Power isn’t free and comes from somewhere and is paid for by someone. If I got free diesel I could claim my truck is free to run and with a 100gal tank in the bed I could run damn near across the country non stop and recycle my waste by tossing it on the windshields of whatever Prius I pass.

The problem is a huge initial upfront cost, a .gov (dem) subsidized vehicle taking my tax dollars and giving them to monster companies to sell these vehicles because they are cost prohibitive generally or they are mandated by .gov for mpg standards.
And then it comes down to practicality. There isn’t that for me personally. I would rather get a used Honda Civic for $10k and spend $60k in gas then get a $70k EV because it is “cool” and “it doesn’t use any power or gas” which again is total BS. It sucks up plenty of juice, it just depends on who is paying for it. That civic will last longer, guaranteed. Batteries on iPads last a couple thousand charges. EVs will be similar and then a huge expense to replace them or you suffer the degradation of range.

Cool concept, but not practical for a whole lot of people and when those who love this new concept start to push and push how great their idea is and make sure anyone who disagrees knows how bad and wrong they are, that turns into the shitty way of doing things.

[Wulf202]

In what aspect? They're both made of similar materials so it would be pretty similar. Do you mean the computers and such or do you mean that the truck would just fall apart in general if you asked it to haul that much?

Strong magnets and computers, non steel beds with rough handling. Pick one.

For the record about 20% of my miles come from what you'd consider road trips, half of those miles are towing on road trips. I take a break every 4 hours and typically stop at 12 but can go 18 hours for a trip.

Like others have said this concept could be an alternative to the typical f150 usage but won't replace the heavy haulers.

[Jer]

Jer I like you and I get why you are defending your new found love. But there are some realistic differences that apply to some of us.
I couldn’t take an EV vehicle in my hunting trips. An EV vehicle won’t remotely come close to pulling what I can and do pull for as long as I can pull, as far as I can pull and in the fastest given time that I can pull with a present day diesel truck. That’s what this thread was about, that’s what the comparison is about. It is hands down in 100% favor of a modern day diesel truck over a concert EV truck for what I do.

Now for cost, you can’t say an EV has no cost. Just because someone subsidizes the energy bill at a charging location doesn’t mean there isn’t a cost somewhere.
A huge cost goes into a charging station at a residence. An even bigger one for pit stops or rest areas or subsidized stations. Those costs add up and draw plenty of power. Power isn’t free and comes from somewhere and is paid for by someone. If I got free diesel I could claim my truck is free to run and with a 100gal tank in the bed I could run damn near across the country non stop and recycle my waste by tossing it on the windshields of whatever Prius I pass.

The problem is a huge initial upfront cost, a .gov (dem) subsidized vehicle taking my tax dollars and giving them to monster companies to sell these vehicles because they are cost prohibitive generally or they are mandated by .gov for mpg standards.
And then it comes down to practicality. There isn’t that for me personally. I would rather get a used Honda Civic for $10k and spend $60k in gas then get a $70k EV because it is “cool” and “it doesn’t use any power or gas” which again is total BS. It sucks up plenty of juice, it just depends on who is paying for it. That civic will last longer, guaranteed. Batteries on iPads last a couple thousand charges. EVs will be similar and then a huge expense to replace them or you suffer the degradation of range.

Cool concept, but not practical for a whole lot of people and when those who love this new concept start to push and push how great their idea is and make sure anyone who disagrees knows how bad and wrong they are, that turns into the shitty way of doing things.

I've said it numerous times and I guess I have to put a disclaimer at the beginning of every single post I make: I'm not saying EVs are for everyone and that they can fit every need. Hell, I feel like I've said that half a dozen times just tonight and yet people still insist on putting words into my mouth. Saying it's my "new found love" trivializes the years of research I've done on the topic. This isn't some torrid love affair that will fizzle after a few months. The tires are turning and I'm not the one turning them but I'm part of it. Some don't like change and I get that but don't blame the messenger.

Hell, I still feel that EV isn't even the right platform for heavy duty use and I'm on the record saying that. I feel like hydrogen would be the best solution for long-haul semitractor trailers but nobody is building one. Tesla makes EVs so they said screw it, we'll build something better. That doesn't mean it's the best solution but it's probably going to be better than what is currently available.

I feel like these full size pick-ups fall somewhere in the middle. For most they will be fine. For some who actually use their pick-ups more like a semi they may not suffice. I wouldn't suggest anyone put on the blinders and buy something that doesn't fit their needs. I also grew up on farms and know that most city folk "need" a lot, lot, LOT less pick-up truck than they think they do. That's another topic though.

Your needs are that 1-2% I talked about but blindly trying to take down the entire segment because of your specified needs is a bit myopic. No sense bashing the things I've said as I stated numerous times it was speaking to the 98-99% use. In those cases they still apply.

I can say that charging them at a Supercharger has not cost because, for me, it does. You seem to think that means that taxes are paying them and they are but the fact is that Tesla pays for that and the cost is built into the price of the cars. I'm sure that those paying $140k for a car are absorbing the lion's share of that cost. Just like they all have free 4G LTE for streaming music 100% free for life, web surfing and anything else you can do with data and guess what.... free. Sure it comes with the cost of that car but that's better than being nickle and dimmed to death with monthly fees. Personally, I like buying a used car at a massive discount over new and getting all the perks w/o a monthly service charge for the rest of my life.

As for a huge cost going into a charging station at a residence.... $39 is a huge cost? I put in a NEMA 14-50 outlet myself in an afternoon and it was $39 worth of parts from Home Depot. Even if you pay an electrician to do it that wouldn't have cost more than $200-$300 in this area. The cost isn't huge to charge at home at all. Quite the contrary because we've saved about $450 per month in has the last three months we've been driving these Model S's. It's pretty nice never having to go stand outside at a gas station. Not to mention I no longer have to roll around on my cold garage floor in the winter changing engine oil and doing other "routine maintenance" that simply doesn't exist on an EV.

Where can you get free diesel?

Here we go with the government subsidized tax dollars things again. You need to do more research on what "subsidies" exist for the big three and compare them to Tesla and then come back and tell me how much Tesla is ripping the tax payer off. This song has been played for years and it's complete BS man. Tesla got a LOAN at the same time Ford did and it was a fraction of the amount Ford got. GM and Chrysler also took loans as well as bailouts. Tesla paid their LOAN back ahead of schedule. You think Ford, GM or Chrysler has paid theirs back yet? Nope. There's still a MASSIVE debt owed by the big three and based on current financials it doesn't look like we'll see that money back. Yet people are mad at Tesla for "Government subsidies" ROFL

Go get your used Honda Civic and then I will meet you somewhere. Drive both. Then tell me with a straight face how much better than Civic is. Comparing the batteries of an EV to an iPad proves how ignorant to this topic you are. The technology is entirely different. Model S's are already going over 400k miles on the factory battery pack under the worst conditions they can get which is charging to 100% via nothing but Superchargers. Early on they were concerned that you might not get 200-300k out of a battery pack. Now we have countless data points of cars going half a million miles of hard driving with less than 10% battery degradation. That's just crazy. So I can have a car with 350 miles range new and then by 500k miles I may have the unbelievable decision to replace my batteries because they now "only" get 315 miles of range? lol C'mon man, you're smarter than that.

Did I mention that the 2015 Model S we bought has an unlimited mileage battery warranty until 2023? That's the one we bought used too. Anything goes wrong and they replace it. That's a LOT of confidence to put in an "iPad battery" wouldn't you agree? That "huge expense" as you put it will not only come down in price by the time I even need to concern myself with it but I plan properly and put a little money away each month until then I can replace the battery pack twice by the time I need to. Same goes for any ICE vehicle you plan to put 500k miles on. Except you better put a LOT more money away for normal wear and tear items that these don't even have. Talk to me about timing belt changes, alternators, transmissions, clutches, and all of those other moving parts ICE cars need. Hell, people are getting 250k miles out of the brake pads and rotors thanks to regenerative braking! lol

You say that I'm pushing and pushing and all I'm doing is combating misinformation that gets spewed as fact. If I was having this conversation with open minded people it's a LOT different. Hell, just read back a few posts where I was talking to open minded people. Totally different conversation.

Face it, the "cool concept" is here to stay and in it's existing form (and improving monthly) it's an awesome option for most car owners.

[MrPrena]

This gotta be staged/madeup.

[Great-Kazoo]

When i see an EV pulling a 5th wheel with their bass boat behind that, up floyd hill @ 80, i'll consider it.

We really like the EV "concept". BUT..........Like solar for the home, it's just not practical. Or IMO something my money would be wisely spent on, for a diminishing return. I say diminishing due to the newness of it while the technology. By the time you're in to the 4th years payments. Is already outdated.

[Jer]

This gotta be staged/madeup.

A buddy sent me that one too. I refuse to believe any human being is that dumb.