Diesel pickups are for chumps

[Justin]

The Tesla 3 cracking the top 10 in sales has a hell of a lot more to do with the bottom falling out of the sedan market. Ford plans to only make 1 of them going forward. The market is primarily CUV/SUV/Truck in this country.

So, basically Tesla is the one company that is making a sedan that anyone actually wants.

As to scale, people get excited about Tesla trying to hit 5,000 vehicles in a week. GM makes over 8,000 per day. Car manufacturers announce new products and then they show up at dealers to purchase in volume. No fanfare whatsoever. Yet, people get excited when Tesla loses a little less money in a quarter than expected. I'm not drinking the Kool-aid.

Its funny watching the people who dislike Tesla continually shift goal posts. In ten years they've gone from manufacturing a boutique sportscar for rich guys to bringing to market the first viable electric vehicle that's so desireable they're having issues meeting the demand. That's an incredible amount of progress by any metric, yet those who are critical continually harp on and on about how their production numbers should be higher.

Car companies are really good at making cars. To make electric cars isn't outside their ability.

And yet not a single one of them managed to make a viable electric car until Tesla started eating out of their rice bowl, and even now, the only electric cars that are on par with the Teslas are luxury vehicles for the rich; the Jaguar iPACE and Porsche Taycan. Oh, and they've both had their delivery dates pushed back. Furthermore, they're going to find themselves resource constrained as demand for lithium and cobalt increases. Sure, the legacy car makers have gobs of money, but I sure can't seem to find their gigafactories or super charging stations on Google Maps. Perhaps you could post a link?

Tesla isn't building base 3's. They're selling $70K+ 3's. The production volume of Tesla is leading to the expiration of some of the 'free' tax dollars subsidizing this horseshit.

No one in the history of buying a car, ever, has ever bought the base model. As a general rule, I drive late-model shitboxes and spend as little on vehicles as I can, and even none of those have been a base model. I would expect that a car aimed squarely at the middle-middle to upper-middle class market would apply.

WHEN Tesla shits the bed, the vehicles will no longer have OTA updates, etc.[/QUOTE]

People have been claiming Tesla is dying from day one and it simply hasn't happened. it's no different than the mass media polls claiming that Donald Trump only had a 1% chance of winning the election, or all the times that the death of Amazon was claimed to be days away.

[Justin]

Just got back from a road trip to the Olympic Peninsula, then to Whistler, BC, then back through Seattle to home. Day 1 was from Highlands Ranch to Kellogg, Idaho. Do that in an EV.

Attachment 75610

Alex Roy has run multiple Cannonball Runs in a Tesla Model 3. His last one was 50 hours and 16 minutes. This compares to Ed Bolian's run earlier this year, with a highly modified Mercedes CL55 at 28 hours and 50 minutes.

Given that the Model 3 was a completely unmodified factory vehicle, that is the first generation of a completely new technology, a cross-country run of 50 hours is a fairly astounding feat, especially given that there are so many people (some apparently here in this very thread) who think such a feat is a complete impossibility.

[Gman]

Anything is possible with enough time. Why do it in almost twice the time, unless it's sous vide?

Tesla's 3rd assembly line is in tents. That doesn't scream 'tooling up for the long-term'.

As to not wanting to drive that far in a single day in any vehicle, it's easier in a Mercedes GL 450 that rides on air. Driving through country like northern Wyoming, Montana (alongside the Clark Fork), and the Idaho panhandle is amazing. I like driving, not waiting for my $70K+ car to keep recharging.

If you Tesla lovers think the company is doing everything right, how many of you own one of them?

[Justin]

Anything is possible with enough time. Why do it in almost twice the time, unless it's sous vide?

The point is that one of the most difficult endurance challenges in driving has been done with an EV, multiple times, with a vehicle that is using v1.0 technology, completely contrary to the claims that EVs are range limited.

Pointing out that the same task can be completed faster, with a purpose-modified ICE-powered car turns out to be just a form of moving the goalposts.

Tesla's 3rd assembly line is in tents. That doesn't scream 'tooling up for the long-term'.

It's a rigid structure, and given that standing up a new building in California is probably a zoning nightmare, I don't see the problem so long as they're able to keep building to the same standard. Thus far I've seen no evidence that cars built on one line are any worse than the ones built on another. It's all just been speculative FUD.

As to not wanting to drive that far in a single day in any vehicle, it's easier in a Mercedes GL 450 that rides on air. Driving through country like northern Wyoming, Montana (alongside the Clark Fork), and the Idaho panhandle is amazing. I like driving, not waiting for my $70K+ car to keep recharging.

But I thought it wasn't possible to drive an electric vehicle outside of urban/suburban areas? Now you're saying you don't like the fact that it takes a bit longer to charge? Besides, I don't think Ed Bolian cared about how well the car's suspension and seats cradled him, especially given that the vehicle had an absolutely enormous auxiliary fuel tank.

If you Tesla lovers think the company is doing everything right, how many of you own one of them?

I'm still reasonably happy with the car I have, which is paid off. I'm also looking at buying a new house in the next couple of years, so the expense of another vehicle isn't in the cards at this point.

If you think Tesla is doomed, why aren't you shorting their stock?

[Gman]

I have no idea why you're fixated on a modified endurance car. A Tesla can eventually get somewhere if you have no time constraints and can take a route with adequate recharging stations. Someone can sail in a boat around the world taking quite some time to do it. What's your point?

It's pretty easy to drive across country in a vehicle conventionally re-fueled in a few minutes time. This fuel is also readily available, even in some fairly remote parts of our country. If you want to spend that much for a vehicle that will primarily be operated only in your metro area, go for it. Personally, I don't want to have to hyper-mile a vehicle to drive to my company's facility in Cheyenne and back. If you want to try and take long trips in your Tesla and don't mind killing some hours along the way for recharging, knock yourself out.

I don't put my money in play when the company is run by a nut with the stock being pumped by the MSM and social media.

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and buy a Tesla?

[Justin]

I have no idea why you're fixated on a modified endurance car. A Tesla can eventually get somewhere if you have no time constraints and can take a route with adequate recharging stations. Someone can sail in a boat around the world taking quite some time to do it. What's your point?

I'm not fixated on a modified endurance car, I'm just simply using it as a point of comparison for roughly the same run being made at roughly the same time frame. Not many of these runs are made, and I doubt any have been done with an unmodified ICE vehicle since the heyday of the race in the 1970s.

The point here, is that there are people who constantly harp about how range limits and charge times are some kind of show stopper, when in fact, even with a first generation Tesla, it clearly is not, as demonstrated by someone who's undertaken the sort of long-distance endurance driving that very, very, very few people would ever actually attempt. Extrapolating that feat to the sort of long distance driving the average person undertakes once or twice a year seems like a fairly easy exercise, basically assume that maybe it takes you 30 minutes to top up the battery vs. 10 minutes to fill up a gas tank.

It's pretty easy to drive across country in a vehicle conventionally re-fueled in a few minutes time. This fuel is also readily available, even in some fairly remote parts of our country. If you want to spend that much for a vehicle that will primarily be operated only in your metro area, go for it. Personally, I don't want to have to hyper-mile a vehicle to drive to my company's facility in Cheyenne and back. If you want to try and take long trips in your Tesla and don't mind killing some hours along the way for recharging, knock yourself out.

Sure, if you're a travelling salesman or whatever, a Tesla probably wouldn't be a good choice, you'd be better off with some econobox that gets good mileage. But most people don't regularly drive those distances, anyway, so the additional few minutes spent at a Super Charger twice a year wouldn't be a big deal, especially when compared to the fact that people driving Teslas never have to stop to refuel when commuting or even taking a day trip. I will, however, note that a Google Maps query puts the distance between Highlands Ranch (where you're presumably located) and Cheyenne, WY at 118 miles, or a 236 mile round trip. That's well within the stated range of the Tesla Model 3 at an EPA-rated 310 miles.

I don't put my money in play when the company is run by a nut with the stock being pumped by the MSM and social media.

People who are nuts generally don't deliver, so it would appear that shorting the company would be a good strategy if he's even half as crazy as claimed.

So far as I've seen, the MSM basically hates Tesla. Most of the large autoblogs dislike him, the major car magazines give no or faint coverage (probably because Tesla doesn't buy two page spreads advertising their vehicles) and the financial and news outlets hate him because he doesn't engage in leftist identity politics genuflecting. And that's before you even look at the big time financial guys shorting the stock and their mouthpieces in the press who constantly bang on about how terrible Tesla is doing.

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and buy a Tesla?

Asked and answered.

[68Charger]

The point is that one of the most difficult endurance challenges in driving has been done with an EV, multiple times, with a vehicle that is using v1.0 technology, completely contrary to the claims that EVs are range limited.

To the point of the Original post about a EV TRUCK, towing a Trailer... it's going to need one hell of a battery pack to have decent range when pulling 35k GCWR

bigger battery pack means longer charging times for the same charging station... Tesla's 75 minutes for a full charge on a 100kWh battery pack would be 2.5 hours on a 200kWh battery pack... that's a long lunch, and just based on physics, could need to be done every 200-300 miles.

Now for a good portion of truck owners (likely those talking about F150s, and others who don't regularly use their truck like a real truck)... it should be fine, but towing a 15K Lb trailer cross-country is going to be a LOT of LONG recharging stops.

My real-world example of moving from Penrose to Canton would have likely result in a dead battery in the TX panhandle, unless the truck was packing a 300+kWh battery pack... The 120kW "Supercharger" Tesla stations aren't going to cut it... they'll need 500+kW on tap, with at least 300kW available per vehicle before the truck in the OP could be viable for any real long-distance hauling.

And I appreciate what Tesla has done, but I'm not remotely considering purchasing ANY $50k+ car... I'm getting ready to sell my most expensive vehicle (2007 Cummins 6.7L) for around $20k. I've got one daughter starting college this month, with 7+ years ahead of her (wants to be a PT Doc)... and 2 more kids behind her. So I'll stick with my $8,000 12v Cummins that I've had for years, and that leaves about $100k for diesel fuel, upgrades and repairs before I'm even close to what an EV truck would cost before it's first recharge.

If I win the lottery, I'll put a deposit on a new Roadster... but otherwise it's just not within my means unless I dip into retirement fund and/or tell the kids the world needs ditch diggers, too..

[Irving]

Do you think people had this same conversation about automobiles when they first appeared on the scene?

"My horse can graze while I take a dump in the woods. I don't have to carry any fuel."

"Trains have lines all the way across the country. How am I going to get fuel once I get outside the city?"

[Justin]

To the point of the Original post about a EV TRUCK, towing a Trailer... it's going to need one hell of a battery pack to have decent range when pulling 35k GCWR

bigger battery pack means longer charging times for the same charging station... Tesla's 75 minutes for a full charge on a 100kWh battery pack would be 2.5 hours on a 200kWh battery pack... that's a long lunch, and just based on physics, could need to be done every 200-300 miles.

Now for a good portion of truck owners (likely those talking about F150s, and others who don't regularly use their truck like a real truck)... it should be fine, but towing a 15K Lb trailer cross-country is going to be a LOT of LONG recharging stops.

My real-world example of moving from Penrose to Canton would have likely result in a dead battery in the TX panhandle, unless the truck was packing a 300+kWh battery pack... The 120kW "Supercharger" Tesla stations aren't going to cut it... they'll need 500+kW on tap, with at least 300kW available per vehicle before the truck in the OP could be viable for any real long-distance hauling.

And I appreciate what Tesla has done, but I'm not remotely considering purchasing ANY $50k+ car... I'm getting ready to sell my most expensive vehicle (2007 Cummins 6.7L) for around $20k. I've got one daughter starting college this month, with 7+ years ahead of her (wants to be a PT Doc)... and 2 more kids behind her. So I'll stick with my $8,000 12v Cummins that I've had for years, and that leaves about $100k for diesel fuel, upgrades and repairs before I'm even close to what an EV truck would cost before it's first recharge.

If I win the lottery, I'll put a deposit on a new Roadster... but otherwise it's just not within my means unless I dip into retirement fund and/or tell the kids the world needs ditch diggers, too..

I agree with your assessment, especially with respect to towing. It's also probably why Tesla isn't planning on doing a pickup truck until after 2020. Currently, for their Semi, Tesla is claiming a 500 mile range, fully loaded, but I would expect that they're banking on making at least a couple of incremental advances in battery technology for that the happen. Same goes for the slated 600 mile range of the Roadster 2.0.

[68Charger]

I agree with your assessment, especially with respect to towing. It's also probably why Tesla isn't planning on doing a pickup truck until after 2020. Currently, for their Semi, Tesla is claiming a 500 mile range, fully loaded, but I would expect that they're banking on making at least a couple of incremental advances in battery technology for that the happen. Same goes for the slated 600 mile range of the Roadster 2.0.

The Roadster 2.0 is another animal entirely... it will have 200kWh battery pack, but is likely at least as aerodynamic as the Model S... twice the battery, twice the range (likely a bit more lost due to weight of twice the battery) it's going to take 2.5 Hours for a full charge, but that's not that big of a deal when you have supercar performance... and it won't have nearly the load that trucks do. I'm sure Tesla's semis are packing huge battery packs... I'm curious how far they drive them, and where do they charge them?

Found this: https://electrek.co/2017/11/17/tesla...ck-specs-cost/

From that article:

Musk talked about the new megachargers adding 400 miles of range on the Tesla Semi in just 30 minutes. Using the same metrics released by Tesla for energy consumption, it would translate into roughly 1.6 MW charging or about more than 10 times more powerful than Tesla’s current Superchargers.