Diesel pickups are for chumps

[Irving]

I think there is a community of people who do stuff like that, but I don't know enough about it to know the trip details. The point still stands though, and this coming from someone who drives more than almost everyone but truck drivers and door to door vacuum salesmen.

[68Charger]

I think there is a community of people who do stuff like that, but I don't know enough about it to know the trip details. The point still stands though, and this coming from someone who drives more than almost everyone but truck drivers and door to door vacuum salesmen.

It's all in the fine print (which is grounded in physics)...

I've seen Tesla model S owners tout "170 Mi charge in 30 minutes"... AT A TESLA "SUPERCHARGER" station...up to 120 KW per vehicle, but 145 KW distributed at one station... 75 minutes for a full charge! But that's for a model S that's ONLY 4,647 to 4,941# curb weight.. (Gross vehicle weight rating: 5,732 to 5,997 lbs)... And with the lowest cd od any produ production vehicle

Need more than 5 passengers that are less than average size? The model X suv is 5,185 to 5,531 # curb weight.. (Gross vehicle weight rating: 6,581 to 6,768 lbs)... and with the lowest cd of any SUV. same charge capacity, just less range.

Those weights are without any on-board power genset, and without pickup level payload capacity. They're going to have to bump up charging rates beyond that for a pickup towing a trailer... not to mention are facilities available at all stations for vehicles with cargo? What about live cargo?

The grid power draw requirements will increase exponentially...

[Irving]

The grid power draw requirements will increase exponentially...

Of course, just like with any new technology.

I think Jer pretty much nailed it with his post. It doesn't really matter if Tesla fails or not, because the bar has already been set, and the public has already been given a taste of the future; regardless of how many people have actually purchased an EV vehicle at this point. It just takes a company to start the ball rolling.

[Aloha_Shooter]

I'm saying the Porsche Tayman will rock because they've been combining lessons learned with their mainline cars and lessons learned at Le Mans. My cousin is a regional sales manager for Tesla and was bragging about its performance. When I told him I expected him to take me on straights but that I'd get him on curves, all he could talk about was how the car's weight let it take curves -- sorry, but the automotive engineers at Porsche or GM or Ford have other tricks up their sleeves besides making the car heavy with a low center of gravity.

Despite all the Tesla hype, the company has been surviving on decapitalization write-offs and tax rebates. They still haven't made an actual profit. Yes, they approach things differently -- that's not always good, as their bitter experience with the Model 3 is bearing out. Musk is going through the same thing with SpaceX -- some good, original think in the way they approach space launch but also relearning lessons the "bigs" learned 40-50 years ago because they roll in thinking they already know everything they need.

The X model my cousin drove looked great and I'd totally want an EV if I was back in Hawaii with a daily commute of 10-15 miles and a longest ever drive of maybe 50-60 miles but I wouldn't have wanted it for my drive to Tucson last month and I don't want a vehicle that "bricks" if you let the battery drain completely.

[Bailey Guns]

I say the more choices, the merrier. I'm not happy about tax dollars subsidizing auto makers like Tesla...but it happens all the time and it's been happening for years with all the others at some point. So apparently the government doesn't give a damn about what I like or don't like getting subsidies. Go figure.

If a manufacturer can make an EV that can do the same things a vehicle currently powered by gas/diesel can do, why not?

But I'm not giving up my diesel-fueled truck, car or tractor any time soon. Likely not in my lifetime.

[Gman]

Anything is possible with enough time. Why do it in almost twice the time, unless it's sous vide?

Tesla's 3rd assembly line is in tents. That doesn't scream 'tooling up for the long-term'.

As to not wanting to drive that far in a single day in any vehicle, it's easier in a Mercedes GL 450 that rides on air. Driving through country like northern Wyoming, Montana (alongside the Clark Fork), and the Idaho panhandle is amazing. I like driving, not waiting for my $70K+ car to keep recharging.

If you Tesla lovers think the company is doing everything right, how many of you own one of them?

[Justin]

Anything is possible with enough time. Why do it in almost twice the time, unless it's sous vide?

The point is that one of the most difficult endurance challenges in driving has been done with an EV, multiple times, with a vehicle that is using v1.0 technology, completely contrary to the claims that EVs are range limited.

Pointing out that the same task can be completed faster, with a purpose-modified ICE-powered car turns out to be just a form of moving the goalposts.

Tesla's 3rd assembly line is in tents. That doesn't scream 'tooling up for the long-term'.

It's a rigid structure, and given that standing up a new building in California is probably a zoning nightmare, I don't see the problem so long as they're able to keep building to the same standard. Thus far I've seen no evidence that cars built on one line are any worse than the ones built on another. It's all just been speculative FUD.

As to not wanting to drive that far in a single day in any vehicle, it's easier in a Mercedes GL 450 that rides on air. Driving through country like northern Wyoming, Montana (alongside the Clark Fork), and the Idaho panhandle is amazing. I like driving, not waiting for my $70K+ car to keep recharging.

But I thought it wasn't possible to drive an electric vehicle outside of urban/suburban areas? Now you're saying you don't like the fact that it takes a bit longer to charge? Besides, I don't think Ed Bolian cared about how well the car's suspension and seats cradled him, especially given that the vehicle had an absolutely enormous auxiliary fuel tank.

If you Tesla lovers think the company is doing everything right, how many of you own one of them?

I'm still reasonably happy with the car I have, which is paid off. I'm also looking at buying a new house in the next couple of years, so the expense of another vehicle isn't in the cards at this point.

If you think Tesla is doomed, why aren't you shorting their stock?

[68Charger]

The point is that one of the most difficult endurance challenges in driving has been done with an EV, multiple times, with a vehicle that is using v1.0 technology, completely contrary to the claims that EVs are range limited.

To the point of the Original post about a EV TRUCK, towing a Trailer... it's going to need one hell of a battery pack to have decent range when pulling 35k GCWR

bigger battery pack means longer charging times for the same charging station... Tesla's 75 minutes for a full charge on a 100kWh battery pack would be 2.5 hours on a 200kWh battery pack... that's a long lunch, and just based on physics, could need to be done every 200-300 miles.

Now for a good portion of truck owners (likely those talking about F150s, and others who don't regularly use their truck like a real truck)... it should be fine, but towing a 15K Lb trailer cross-country is going to be a LOT of LONG recharging stops.

My real-world example of moving from Penrose to Canton would have likely result in a dead battery in the TX panhandle, unless the truck was packing a 300+kWh battery pack... The 120kW "Supercharger" Tesla stations aren't going to cut it... they'll need 500+kW on tap, with at least 300kW available per vehicle before the truck in the OP could be viable for any real long-distance hauling.

And I appreciate what Tesla has done, but I'm not remotely considering purchasing ANY $50k+ car... I'm getting ready to sell my most expensive vehicle (2007 Cummins 6.7L) for around $20k. I've got one daughter starting college this month, with 7+ years ahead of her (wants to be a PT Doc)... and 2 more kids behind her. So I'll stick with my $8,000 12v Cummins that I've had for years, and that leaves about $100k for diesel fuel, upgrades and repairs before I'm even close to what an EV truck would cost before it's first recharge.

If I win the lottery, I'll put a deposit on a new Roadster... but otherwise it's just not within my means unless I dip into retirement fund and/or tell the kids the world needs ditch diggers, too..

[Justin]

To the point of the Original post about a EV TRUCK, towing a Trailer... it's going to need one hell of a battery pack to have decent range when pulling 35k GCWR

bigger battery pack means longer charging times for the same charging station... Tesla's 75 minutes for a full charge on a 100kWh battery pack would be 2.5 hours on a 200kWh battery pack... that's a long lunch, and just based on physics, could need to be done every 200-300 miles.

Now for a good portion of truck owners (likely those talking about F150s, and others who don't regularly use their truck like a real truck)... it should be fine, but towing a 15K Lb trailer cross-country is going to be a LOT of LONG recharging stops.

My real-world example of moving from Penrose to Canton would have likely result in a dead battery in the TX panhandle, unless the truck was packing a 300+kWh battery pack... The 120kW "Supercharger" Tesla stations aren't going to cut it... they'll need 500+kW on tap, with at least 300kW available per vehicle before the truck in the OP could be viable for any real long-distance hauling.

And I appreciate what Tesla has done, but I'm not remotely considering purchasing ANY $50k+ car... I'm getting ready to sell my most expensive vehicle (2007 Cummins 6.7L) for around $20k. I've got one daughter starting college this month, with 7+ years ahead of her (wants to be a PT Doc)... and 2 more kids behind her. So I'll stick with my $8,000 12v Cummins that I've had for years, and that leaves about $100k for diesel fuel, upgrades and repairs before I'm even close to what an EV truck would cost before it's first recharge.

If I win the lottery, I'll put a deposit on a new Roadster... but otherwise it's just not within my means unless I dip into retirement fund and/or tell the kids the world needs ditch diggers, too..

I agree with your assessment, especially with respect to towing. It's also probably why Tesla isn't planning on doing a pickup truck until after 2020. Currently, for their Semi, Tesla is claiming a 500 mile range, fully loaded, but I would expect that they're banking on making at least a couple of incremental advances in battery technology for that the happen. Same goes for the slated 600 mile range of the Roadster 2.0.

[68Charger]

I agree with your assessment, especially with respect to towing. It's also probably why Tesla isn't planning on doing a pickup truck until after 2020. Currently, for their Semi, Tesla is claiming a 500 mile range, fully loaded, but I would expect that they're banking on making at least a couple of incremental advances in battery technology for that the happen. Same goes for the slated 600 mile range of the Roadster 2.0.

The Roadster 2.0 is another animal entirely... it will have 200kWh battery pack, but is likely at least as aerodynamic as the Model S... twice the battery, twice the range (likely a bit more lost due to weight of twice the battery) it's going to take 2.5 Hours for a full charge, but that's not that big of a deal when you have supercar performance... and it won't have nearly the load that trucks do. I'm sure Tesla's semis are packing huge battery packs... I'm curious how far they drive them, and where do they charge them?

Found this: https://electrek.co/2017/11/17/tesla...ck-specs-cost/

From that article:

Musk talked about the new megachargers adding 400 miles of range on the Tesla Semi in just 30 minutes. Using the same metrics released by Tesla for energy consumption, it would translate into roughly 1.6 MW charging or about more than 10 times more powerful than Tesla’s current Superchargers.