Diesel pickups are for chumps

[68Charger]

I don't understand the Tesla hate, enlighten me.

Tesla isn't American made? That's news to me.

It's not about American made, AFAIK.

Understand the hate for ICEs by elitists, and you're on the right track.

I'm in no way endorsing "icing" or whatever they want to call it that makes them feel superior.

I believe most humans like conflict at a sub-conscious level, so if there isn't something real to fight over, they will manufacture something unreal.

[Jer]

I don't get it either. Why should I care what kind of car someone else drives? If you want to drive an EV, knock yourself out. It's your money, your choice. If you choose to drive a Brand X, same thing. Why can't people just say, "EVs aren't for me. I prefer my Ford (or whatever)", and leave it at that?

Apparently that's too mature of an attitude to expect from adults.

It's not about American made, AFAIK.

Understand the hate for ICEs by elitists, and you're on the right track.

I'm in no way endorsing "icing" or whatever they want to call it that makes them feel superior.

I believe most humans like conflict at a sub-conscious level, so if there isn't something real to fight over, they will manufacture something unreal.

But he just said "I laughed when they tried to take the American Made path." as if it's not. I would think that this group, if any, would still care about something that's made by American hands in America for an American company that is actually innovating. Nah, we hate that. I don't get it at all and can only think it's all the untrue FUD that is being spewed as fact among the unwashed masses that lack two brain cells to run together.

I think a big part of it is in what you just said... anti-EV people see an EV (specifically a Tesla) and they assume some Elitist is driving it along with his political stance and hopes and ambitions in life. That's an awful lot to know for sure based on the car they drive. That's a you problem, not a me problem. I drive a Tesla Model S because it's hands down the best car I've ever driven. If you want to assume my ideology based on that I'm not going to lose much sleep.

We can at least agree that this ICEing thing is idiotic as a basis for agreement. If you can't at least agree on that then you're irrational and we don't even have a starting point from which to discuss. I'm glad to see we at least agree on one thing. lol

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

I don't get it either. Why should I care what kind of car someone else drives? If you want to drive an EV, knock yourself out. It's your money, your choice. If you choose to drive a Brand X, same thing. Why can't people just say, "EVs aren't for me. I prefer my Ford (or whatever)", and leave it at that?

Are you new?!? Get off the innerwebz!!!!

I don’t have a dog in this fight either. It is all about performance and it has been interesting to watch.

[Jer]

Are you new?!? Get off the innerwebz!!!!

I don’t have a dog in this fight either. It is all about performance and it has been interesting to watch.

If you don't give a shit about the political or environmental aspects go drive a Tesla Model S. That's what I did. It's simply the best car I've ever driven and it's not even close either. It really is on another level and has the best of all aspects combined into one vehicle. If anyone wants a ride just let me know. I'm happy to demo these things for people who have never been in one and answer any and all questions they may have.

[Wulf202]

Personally i like the concept and I'd drive an EV if it could actually replace what my bro dozer does, but even the prototypes on paper can't do what my 20 year old f250 is capable of let alone a new duramax.

[Jer]

Personally i like the concept and I'd drive an EV if it could actually replace what my bro dozer does, but even the prototypes on paper can't do what my 20 year old f250 is capable of let alone a new duramax.

Curious what specifically your 20 year old F250 does that something like the Rivian can't. I agree, on paper they look like world beaters so I'm curious what's missing from the spec sheet that you use regularly. Obviously one of the massive differences would be price tag of buying a 20-year-old F250 and one of these new Rivians but that aside (admittedly a massive non-starter for many, rightly so), what is it they can't do that yours can?

[hurley842002]

If battery capacity ever gets significantly better, and charging stations/technology (i.e. quicker charging) ever improves, I'd be all in on a good SUV version. I like road tripping, and long distance driving is a requirement, so unfortunately what is available is out of the question for me, but I really don't understand the unwarranted hate towards EV's.

[68Charger]

Curious what specifically your 20 year old F250 does that something like the Rivian can't. I agree, on paper they look like world beaters so I'm curious what's missing from the spec sheet that you use regularly. Obviously one of the massive differences would be price tag of buying a 20-year-old F250 and one of these new Rivians but that aside (admittedly a massive non-starter for many, rightly so), what is it they can't do that yours can?

That's definately #1... you could buy a 20 Year old Diesel and still have money left to buy thousands of gallons of fuel AND whatever trailer you want to tow with it for similar money.

#2 I've seen commercials where they talk about towing a travel trailer. With a 20-year old 3/4 ton Diesel, you also can- including nearly any gooseneck or fifth wheel, which is going to be a no-go with the Rivian's 55" bed

#3 speaking of the 55" bed, can you get 2 round hay bales, or 4 square bales on it? (I don't even think it could take the weight of 2400-3000#)

#4 How about contracting? You're going to be bending sheetrock if it's hanging over the tailgate... and forget about 12' lumber or ranch gates without a trailer...

#5 I could drive off with a Diesel truck now (already have 2). When is the 180kW version going to be available? Have They even published a price on it yet? Because you're going to need lots more "range" if you start using it like a 3/4 ton.

Stick with comparing it to F150s... most of those are not used like real trucks most of the time anyway (some never). Many could not do some things on this list either.

ETA: I'm comparing to my 20 year old 3/4 ton flat-bed Diesel, since I've never seen wulf's F250. I tried to avoid smart-ass answers like "buy a set of batteries without a loan"... but this is by no means an exhaustive list.

[Wulf202]

Curious what specifically your 20 year old F250 does that something like the Rivian can't. I agree, on paper they look like world beaters so I'm curious what's missing from the spec sheet that you use regularly. Obviously one of the massive differences would be price tag of buying a 20-year-old F250 and one of these new Rivians but that aside (admittedly a massive non-starter for many, rightly so), what is it they can't do that yours can?

68charger nailed it. My 20 year old diesels are cheap and easy to work on. Hell my 12 valve is emp resistant bone stock and runs off used motor oil. On road trips I do 12 hours with only stops for bathroom needs, I have auxiliary tanks when I need them. In bed campers?

I can post pictures of my 8' bed stacked even with the cab of drywall (90 sheets of 5/8, 5 of 1/2). Loads of heavy stuff to the dump... An 8 ft bed is far to useful to me. Also the load rating is 14k on the goose, which is less than it can actually handle. I've had a 16k backhoe on a 7500lb trailer.

I've seen duramax's do 32k over the mountains and 48k in the plains.

[Jer]

If battery capacity ever gets significantly better, and charging stations/technology (i.e. quicker charging) ever improves, I'd be all in on a good SUV version. I like road tripping, and long distance driving is a requirement, so unfortunately what is available is out of the question for me, but I really don't understand the unwarranted hate towards EV's.

As someone who has driven 2,500 miles across the US as recent as a few months ago in an EV I'm curious what you envision a road trip in one to look like that you think you need more range and faster charging than what is currently available. I've heard a lot of negativity surrounding EVs as far as range & charging go so I'm curious how that looks from someone who feels it's a driving factor.

Agreed on the unwarranted hate to EVs. It really is beyond me why some hate the very idea like it kicked their dog or something.