Tesla is having some big network issues

[68Charger]

I assume that the posts from the disgruntled guy are a snapshot of what Tesla looked like a few years ago before his NDA expired. A lot of what he writes reads a lot like similar posts from engineers on the ground level of pretty much any startup.

Worship them if you want... but when their product is wrapped up in and embedded with so much technology, I would hope they have significantly invested in security, redundancy and diversity of their systems.... otherwise they're going to lose the trust of the buying public. Remember when someone released a hack on a Jeep, shutting down the brake system? These kinds of hacks haven't gone away.... and Tesla isn't immune
https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...control-brakes
https://www.wired.com/2016/08/jeep-h...eration-hacks/
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/h...2013-corvette/
https://www.businessinsider.com/it-t...15-9?r=UK&IR=T

you're probably just going to dismiss it as FUD... but no thanks, I'll stick with vehicles that listen to the driver's input only... but maybe that's because I'm a network engineer, and think of the evil that hackers can do- since it's part of my job to keep them out.

[izzy]

I assume that the posts from the disgruntled guy are a snapshot of what Tesla looked like a few years ago before his NDA expired. A lot of what he writes reads a lot like similar posts from engineers on the ground level of pretty much any startup.

That's probably very accurate. I read a ton of what he was posting and it's mostly just being disgruntled. Some of it, if even only mostly true, is pretty bad though and I'm not surprised to hear they had an outage. I've worked in many sized companies from start up to huge corporations. The engineers will dog on the systems no matter what. I know that all systems are prone to break at some point for one reason or another. Just having a single data center is a really bad idea. Your guess is as good as mine about how true that is too.

[Justin]

Please point out where I "worshipped them."

All I did was point out that the disgruntled former employee posted information that is presumably several years out of date. Most of his posts read like the sausage making that goes on with any high tech company. Furthermore, he was an engineer on the infotainment system and didn't offer any actual info on any of the safety-critical systems in the car.

Yes, I'm well aware of the Jeep hack, the cybersecurity articles on it were actually quite interesting. Of course Tesla isn't immune to this, but if their vehicle was as easily hacked as the Jeeps were, there would have been huge presentations about it at DEFCON and other hacking symposiums, and it would have been crowed about loudly in the mainstream press. Cybersecurity issues are hardly going to be limited to Tesla, and the risks of insecure systems will only continue to grow as cars become more and more computerized.

[68Charger]

Please point out where I "worshipped them."

I didn't say you did... maybe implied, but not directly... they have a cult-like following among millions that don't own a single one of their products.

Didn't mean to target you directly, just meant as a general statement about how people regard Tesla and Mr. Musk- sorry if it came off as a personal attack.

And yes, other vehicles are also embedded with lots of technology- but I can take those ICE vehicles to any third party fuel station, and fill up with my next tank.

If Tesla wanted to shut a car owner out of the network today, they'd be up shit creek- they'd take all night to get close to a full charge without "the network", and one employee with a vengeance and technical expertise could likely shut down their vehicle using the cellular connection. I guess it's my independent streak that doesn't want to give someone else that kind of power over my property.

[Justin]

I didn't say you did... maybe implied, but not directly... they have a cult-like following among millions that don't own a single one of their products.

https://www.ar-15.co/threads/170348-...=1#post2159609

Worship them if you want...

At least when I get called out for trolling, I own it.

And yes, other vehicles are also embedded with lots of technology- but I can take those ICE vehicles to any third party fuel station, and fill up with my next tank.

Gonna be kind of hard to drive that ICE vehicle to a gas station if it's been hacked so that the brakes or steering don't work. Frankly, the cybersecurity issues related to remotely networked vehicles are not part and parcel with vehicles that are powered with batteries and electric motors. They're two separate issues, and apply to pretty much any new vehicle that has an integrated wireless connection.

If Tesla wanted to shut a car owner out of the network today, they'd be up shit creek- they'd take all night to get close to a full charge without "the network", and one employee with a vengeance and technical expertise could likely shut down their vehicle using the cellular connection. I guess it's my independent streak that doesn't want to give someone else that kind of power over my property.

Same issue is going to apply to the legacy automakers as they implement these features. Frankly, it's not going to be just Tesla, or just cars, or just social media, or just financial companies, but fundamentally any networked system. The fact that these large companies are able to deplatform and ultimately unperson an individual is going to be a huge, huge issue in the coming years, and is already a large reason why certain sections of the internet are already balkanizing along political lines.

[68Charger]

They're not just a vehicle manufacturer, they provide the only network that can charge their vehicles at an acceptable rate.
it's like if Exxon built cars, and made them so only their pumps would put gas in it.

so it's not the same thing... we all have choices in what we drive (until this isn't a free country anymore)- and I choose to drive vehicles that are not controlled by someone other than the driver. Drive what you choose, but don't blow smoke up my ass about another option that I refuse to choose. Call me a troll if you want, there's still Musk worship real heavy in this thread- paled by the worship in the media.

Maybe I'm speaking a different English... but "worship them if you want" isn't directly saying you are... that would be "spare me the Tesla worship" (or the like)

[Gman]

Was talking to a co-worker today who got some advice from a local tow-truck operator: "Don't buy a Tesla."

When you have something that is reliant on technology, you have increased opportunities for failure. If you read up on the subject, you would find that there were people that couldn't unlock or start their vehicles during the outage.

My ICE vehicle has a proximity keyfob and push-button start...but it also has an emergency key to get in and start it. If you want to count on your phone and an app to control your vehicle, there are multiple opportunities for failure. Just be aware and don't pretend it doesn't happen. Murphy's a bitch.

[68Charger]

Was talking to a co-worker today who got some advice from a local tow-truck operator: "Don't buy a Tesla."

When you have something that is reliant on technology, you have increased opportunities for failure. If you read up on the subject, you would find that there were people that couldn't unlock or start their vehicles during the outage.

My ICE vehicle has a proximity keyfob and push-button start...but it also has an emergency key to get in and start it. If you want to count on your phone and an app to control your vehicle, there are multiple opportunities for failure. Just be aware and don't pretend it doesn't happen. Murphy's a bitch.

it's called the KISS principle... Keep It Simple, Stupid

if you really want the high-tech, whiz-bang options then they either need to be built with double (or triple) redundant systems, with monitoring of primary and backup- so you know there's something to fall back to.... or plan on it failing you at some point.

When you pay that much for a Tesla, many people assume that's what you get.... it's not. There may be some critical systems with redundancy built in (and this should be a technical requirement when doing "autopilot"... otherwise you get people driving into the side of a semi, or running over cyclists.

[Irving]

I've never read any books or articles about The Tow Truck Driver Next Door, or Ten Things All Tow Truck Drivers Know That You Don't.

The relying on technology thing is pretty funny for anyone who has a vehicle made after about 1996.

[68Charger]

I've never read any books or articles about The Tow Truck Driver Next Door, or Ten Things All Tow Truck Drivers Know That You Don't.

The relying on technology thing is pretty funny for anyone who has a vehicle made after about 1996.

There are degrees/levels of technology integration. Technically the wheel is "technology"... just really old, simple technology. Like anything complex, modern automobile have 100s or 1000s of different technologies in them... some active, some passive
The more complicated the technology, the more difficult it is and more time it takes to make it right- and the more chance that somebody else can disrupt it (like hackers).
So technology that has been in use for longer periods has had time to work the bugs out.... bleeding edge technology will have early adopters finding the bugs. If that's your bag, go for it... I don't want to play that with my vehicles, unless it's a toy (like a race car)

It's not like I'm a luddite... I build networks and deal with technology every day at work- including testing and breaking it in our test lab.