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  1. #11
    Machine Gunner XC700116's Avatar
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    Tim hits most of the meat of the subject in his post. Also, for the distances you have available. Buy a good 22LR and use that to practice everything but recoil control. It will pay for itself 10 times over in saved ammo costs over running the big rifles. Plus shooting out the 200 with a 22, is like shooting out to 500 or so with a larger rifle. It's exceedingly good for learning wind calling, and positional shooting.

  2. #12
    Machine Gunner DenverGP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfshoon View Post
    You should attend an Appleseed 2 day shooting clinic.
    An appleseed was the only rifle training I've ever had. Learned a lot, even though we never shot at real distance (only 25 meters at the reduced size targets). Had a lot of fun, and knew I learned some basics but wasn't sure if it would translate into actual distance shooting. Last month when I shot at the bailey 2-gun match, I did really well shooting at 300, 500, and 600 yards. My worst stage scores were from the standing position, which is easy to practice using my 22lr rifle at the 25 yard indoor range.

  3. #13
    CO-AR's Secret Jedi roberth's Avatar
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    Thank you Tim K.

  4. #14
    Scotty Hit It...
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    I only shoot groups when working up a load or checking if my barrel is still shooting. Other than that I firmly believe shooting groups is a waste of time for the type of competitions I shoot, PRS, long range steel..... mostly one shot at a target hit or miss, next target. Shooting dot drills I feel is a much better way to get better at point of aim, point of impact consistency. When I first tried a dot drill several years ago, I thought that should be easy, I got me a one of those sub moa rifles. First time trying a dot drill, 15 1" dots from 100yds, don't remember how many I hit, not many, it was humbling. After that first attempt, shot countless dot drills, see my scores go up at local matches. I do 20 shot dot drills at 100yds with my center fire bolt rilfe, 50yds for my 22. My rifle and I get up and down between every shot, I'm re-establishing everything, cheek pressure, bipod loading..... Two years ago had my first precision AR built, not sure how many 20 shot 1" drills at 100yds I did before I finally cleaned one, it was a lot.

    Start out by shooting X size dot, when you can clean it or get 18/20 go to a smaller dots. As Tim mentioned dry-firing, practice dry firing at a single dot, getting up and down between.

    I very much enjoy helping new shooters, pay back for everyone who has helped me. Last summer I met two green as could be bolt rifle shooters at my local range. They asked me about how I practice, I went over dot drills, why, how.... One of them took it to heart, the other with the nicer rifle/scope kept on doing his thing shooting groups. Shot with them both at a steel match in Rifle, Co. Dot drill spanked group shooter. Group shooter was convinced scope was not tracking, gotta be the gear right! Group shooter could not maintain point of aim/point of impact.

    In general the biggest thing I see new and guys who been shooting for years is poor trigger control. When I first started shooting Hoser's prairie dog match, that is one thing I pay attention to with the better shooters, Hoser, Brian W, Fritz, James V, Chuck W.... how long they stayed on their triggers, follow though. I was taught a trigger drill by a local Palma shooter, sure it's nothing new. Start to slowly put pressure on the trigger and say out loud or to myself, pressure, pressure......trigger breaks, hold trigger to the back and say pressure, pressure, pressure three times, release. Staying on the target the whole time. I've done that drill dry-firing about a billion times.

  5. #15
    WOODSMITH
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    Offgrid is exactly right. When I shoot groups, I completely break position on the rifle, sometimes even to the point of standing up. If your position and your procedure to get into it are solid, you'll shoot the same group size if you fire 5 without breaking position or if you stand up between shots.

    Interestingly (to me, at least), the best group I've every fired was with me standing up between each shot.
    "It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your ignorance"

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  6. #16
    I am my own action figure
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    Dot drills (like Offgrid explained) and the Scrambler drill are the two that give me the most quality feedback/training per round fired, regardless of platform. The Scrambler Drill is from Manny Bragg, but basically, one target and two positions separated by about 8 feet. Hit or miss, move to the other position, until you get 10 hits. With AR, we do it at 100 yards with a 4 or 10 inch plate. With a bolt gun, I have been doing it at 200 to 550. The position can be anything from Prone to Standing, barricade, pretty much anything from a prior match that I sucked at the most. It helps with patience, trigger control and building the positions quickly, but correctly. Every miss is a movement penalty that, after a while, hurts.

    3Gun has become, to some degree, a contest to see who can unload their guns the fastest, so a word of caution if you are looking at 3Gun on the National Stage. Along the Front Range, it has not devolved as much.

    Take a class. We have top tier Precision Rifle instructors a plenty in CO!
    Last edited by MarkCO; 10-31-2018 at 10:25.
    Good Shooting, MarkCO

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  7. #17
    Moderator SA Friday's Avatar
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    The only thing I would add to this so far, is to take a class with a good instructor. Appleseed will only get you so far, and the ladder from there is way higher than most even know. A one or two day class with a high end PRS shooter is easily equal to wearing out a barrel or two of your own experimentation and practice. Spending a weekend with Andy Reinhardt or Brian Whalen or someone equivalent will be an explosive expansion of shooting understanding. It will also show you a lot of the drills they use to improve specific tasks. I learned more this last summer practicing for and shooting a team match with RJ Dussart than I had in 10 years of dabbling in PRS previously. I have taken classes from Ron Avery, Todd Jarrett, Matt Burrkett, Charlie Perez, and Kyle Lamb. Short of Matt's class, I made major advancements in my shooting from all of them.
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  8. #18
    High Power Shooter
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    Thanks for the training path forward.

    I haven't thought about adding a 22 trainer or steel targets but it sounds like they should be an integral part.

    I will revive this thread sometime in the future and report out.

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