"Electric Vehicles are Actually Worse for the Environment than Internal Combustion Cars"

[Irving]

BS video IMO- It doesn't address the carbon footprint of production nor disposal and cost of battery replacement.

Did you watch the video? Seems like he touched on that.

[Ramsker]

[Jer]

I am not anti-EV, but some of his generalizations and assumptions are crap.

A couple of examples from the first few minutes:

- Stopping at a charging station for 1 hour mid-trip works we until there is a line for the charging station. You can't assume that you will always be able to wheel right into a station and plug-in.

- Averaging power outage time across the entire country in kinda like averaging hurricane loss across the entire country. Some areas can be without power for weeks, especially with ice storms. You can store gas to keep your vehicle running. Using that gas in a generator to charge your EV- highly inefficient.

EV's can be highly practical for certain users and areas of the county, especially if you can maintain a second "normal'" car as back-up, but marginalizing legitimate concerns with "facts" doesn't help anything.

How can the conversation be had if we can't make generalizations? We built our house 13 years ago & I've experienced one power outage that lasted about an hour so for my specific example the number is almost zero so for me even the figure he uses seems absurd in the other direction.

As for stopping for an hour that's also one single & very specific trip. Most of the stops are around 15-20min on very long trips & these comprise less than 1% of your actual use. Understanding limitations is important but exaggerating "issues" that aren't a big deal isn't being objective.

[Jer]

Only watched about half, but hasn't considered EV for people who don't live in houses. I imagine most people who park on the street aren't even considering an EV. I wouldn't; but that's the benefit of homeownership though. I have a LOT of stuff I wouldn't have if I lived in an apartment. A smoker for example.

I've never said they are perfect for everyone in every situation. They are however a viable option for far more people who decided they weren't because of misinformation & FUD they formed their opinion on.

Being in an apartment is tricky for sure. Many are installing charging options. Lots of people work at places that offer free charging. Lots of different situations but if you can't charge it consistently this is a problem that's probably not worth trying to overcome.

[Jer]

Jer, you have a thread going about choosing a career path, have you thought about Tesla sales? You are obviously very knowledgeable and passionate about them, perhaps you could take that passion and turn it into $$. Serious suggestion, no sarcasm intended.

I have considered it but this would require commuting & selling cars again. Neither of which would equate to doing something I'm passionate about.

[Jer]

Lets see you pull 12K# with an electric vehicle up Red Mountain, Wolf Creek or Loveland pass.
You'd burn that bitch to the ground.

BS video IMO- It doesn't address the carbon footprint of production nor disposal and cost of battery replacement.
It takes a huge amount of energy to manufacture batteries on this scale and you have an environmental mess when it comes to disposal.
Or do we just send them to India/Pakistan for disposal?
More carbon cause they aint gonna get there on a magic carpet....

Do you also compare 1-ton diesel trucks for that specific use case to other family sedans or just EVs?

[BPTactical]

Thats a Bingo

[.455_Hunter]

How can the conversation be had if we can't make generalizations? We built our house 13 years ago & I've experienced one power outage that lasted about an hour so for my specific example the number is almost zero so for me even the figure he uses seems absurd in the other direction.

As for stopping for an hour that's also one single & very specific trip. Most of the stops are around 15-20min on very long trips & these comprise less than 1% of your actual use. Understanding limitations is important but exaggerating "issues" that aren't a big deal isn't being objective.

Not sure how being without power for weeks isn't a "big deal", but I guess we should ask the folks in Georgia and the Carolinas who got double tapped by hurricanes last year.

A modern gas station can process a large number of vehicles per hour at the pumps. I do not see how such a system would work where everybody wants to charge at the same spot and the same time, especially on rural interstates at "natural" stopping points, like Limon or Raton.

An EV works good for people in Boulder who generally never venture outside the "bubble" on a daily basis and have an alternate car for going skiing or driving to other states.

[Irving]

How is it not exactly the same as a regular gas station? You can't fill two cars at once with a single nozzle, so there are many. If all of the pumps are occupied at the same time, someone waits.

[Jer]

I'm with the battery comments. I'll find the link but there was a huge study done in Europe where they determined to produce a single lithium battery for one of these cars is equivalent, in terms of carbon emissions, to driving a typical car for 10 years straight. The chemicals and other byproducts of producing the batteries are also pretty nasty.

This has been greatly exaggerated & largely based on older chemistry & methods. The number is right around 95% of materials used in a Tesla Lithium Ion battery today are recovered during recycling using today's methods. This number will continue to increase as advancements are made. It's also not objective to lump ALL EVs into one group when discussing this segment. Keep in mind that Tesla also a division that does solar & energy storage. A battery pack that's lost 15-20% of it's range makes a perfect candidate for a Powerwall where charge cycle sizes aren't as important.