"Electric Vehicles are Actually Worse for the Environment than Internal Combustion Cars"

[ray1970]

Be patient. Not everyone has an ICE keyboard.

How sweet would an ICE keyboard be with a nice two stroke?

[buffalobo]

How sweet would an ICE keyboard be with a nice two stroke?

Diesel, rolling coal from my keyboard.

I'll get that loudmouth in the next cubicle.

[SouthPaw]

Diesel, rolling coal from my keyboard.

I'll get that loudmouth in the next cubicle.

[MrPrena]

I know a lady who made $$$$ on TSLA. She got in at high $70s.
I mean wealth managers at lone tree (or highlands ranch) and Boulder Schwab will greet her at the lobby with management level VIP treatment.

I told her may be she should get a Tesla S since she made good $$.
She replied "I am not buying that thing. I am buying grand cherokee."

Whatever will save you $$. I dont care it is Nissan Leaf, Tesla S or Ferrari 488 for all I care.

One of Only vehicle I can save $$ is if i buy those 12+ yr old cheap Ford ranger.

[Justin]

I know a lady who made $$$$ on TSLA. She got in at high $70s.
I mean wealth managers at lone tree (or highlands ranch) and Boulder Schwab will greet her at the lobby with management level VIP treatment.

I told her may be she should get a Tesla S since she made good $$.
She replied "I am not buying that thing. I am buying grand cherokee."

Whatever will save you $$. I dont care it is Nissan Leaf, Tesla S or Ferrari 488 for all I care.

One of Only vehicle I can save $$ is if i buy those 12+ yr old cheap Ford ranger.

Multiple studies have shown that Total Cost of Ownership of a Tesla is lower over the long term than comparable ICE-powered vehicles.

[Gman]

Multiple studies have shown that Total Cost of Ownership of a Tesla is lower over the long term than comparable ICE-powered vehicles.

I read this kind of statement and have to wonder how long is "long term"? The model S only started shipping in late 2012.

The additional cost of electric vs. ICE often takes many years (sometimes around 10) to ever recover the purchase price difference. Now that the US is a net exporter of oil, gas prices are remaining reasonable. A Nissan Leaf avg. sale price is $28,683 and an ICE Versa is $13,932. At $2.50/gallon, that's about 5,900 gallons (546 fill-ups) worth of cost difference.

Oil changes/filters are not what they used to be with modern synthetic oils (often annual/10K miles).

The other thing I have to wonder is what is the comparative mileage on the Teslas vs. ICE vehicles? I could see the mileage limitations and charge times of EV keeping average mileage lower. There's also likely much more down time for repeated recharging vs. annual ICE servicing.

EVs are often heavier than ICE due to the batteries. The electric motors also have quite a bit of torque. What is the delta on tire wear between EVs and ICE?

Would love to see some real statistics that aren't coming from the Church of Tesla.

[Jer]

I read this kind of statement and have to wonder how long is "long term"? The model S only started shipping in late 2012.

The additional cost of electric vs. ICE often takes many years (sometimes around 10) to ever recover the purchase price difference. Now that the US is a net exporter of oil, gas prices are remaining reasonable. A Nissan Leaf avg. sale price is $28,683 and an ICE Versa is $13,932. At $2.50/gallon, that's about 5,900 gallons (546 fill-ups) worth of cost difference.

Oil changes/filters are not what they used to be with modern synthetic oils (often annual/10K miles).

The other thing I have to wonder is what is the comparative mileage on the Teslas vs. ICE vehicles? I could see the mileage limitations and charge times of EV keeping average mileage lower. There's also likely much more down time for repeated recharging vs. annual ICE servicing.

EVs are often heavier than ICE due to the batteries. The electric motors also have quite a bit of torque. What is the delta on tire wear between EVs and ICE?

Would love to see some real statistics that aren't coming from the Church of Tesla.

The problem is when people who are anti-EV see "real statistics" supporting the pro-EV movement that is inevitably coming they just chalk it up to "Church of Tesla" and don't put in their own research to qualify or disqualify these findings themselves. That's too hard in this day of instant info where information is spewed at light speed regardless of if it's fact-based or not.

The amount if ignorance out there being parroted by people as fact by people who don't know the first thing about what they're talking about is nearly impossible to combat at this point. When I pull up places and am met by people who don't know what the hell an EV is the types of questions I get are laughable. Actually, it's often not presented as questions but more as facts and I have to try to inform them in a polite manner how wrong their "facts" really are. Often times, before I even finish my statement I'm hit with yet another "fact" in some sort of machine gun like fashion which is nearly impossible to even pace. It's exhausting and at this point, quite honestly, I don't even care.

Simply put, I'm driving the most amazing car I've ever driven every day of my life. It's like driving the future and it has improved my quality of life in countless ways that are difficult to even quantify to someone who hasn't experienced one for themselves. Early on I felt compelled to bring this revelation to people who didn't even know it was out there but now... I just don't give a hobo's crap what other people do. If they're hell-bent on keeping their horse-drawn carriage and convincing everyone (and mostly themselves) all of the ways it's better... go right on ahead. At this point, I codln't care less what you drive and only wish anti-Tesla people just took the same approach.

I love cars & trucks. Always have. It's been a passion for the better part of my life. I've prided myself in working on and modifying (heavily) most everything I've owned from cheap beaters to high-end sports cars and toys. I feel as though I'm a qualified person to give proper reviews on such things and the cars are just amazing. Full stop. No qualifiers or things like "best EV" or "best sedan" are needed. It's easily the best vehicle I've ever owned in every single category and makes no compromises to do so. Some will say a range of "only" 300-400 miles is a compromise but I never once exceeded that distance in any ICE vehicle I ever own so to all but 0.001% this is irrelevant. The real interesting data point though is how much my wife loves it and how much it's improved her quality of life. She's admittedly NOT a car person. Now, after about a year of driving her Model S she's 100% in love with her car and gushes about it regularly.

But hey, people can just stick their heads in the sand because change is scary.

[hatidua]

Early on I felt compelled to bring this revelation to people who didn't even know it was out there but now... I just don't give a hobo's crap what other people do.

Seven month long thread says otherwise.

Really glad you like your car but the evangelizing is likely turning more people off than on.

[Wulf202]

The problem is when people who are anti-EV see "real statistics" supporting the pro-EV movement that is inevitably coming they just chalk it up to "Church of Tesla" and don't put in their own research to qualify or disqualify these findings themselves. That's too hard in this day of instant info where information is spewed at light speed regardless of if it's fact-based or not.

The amount if ignorance out there being parroted by people as fact by people who don't know the first thing about what they're talking about is nearly impossible to combat at this point. When I pull up places and am met by people who don't know what the hell an EV is the types of questions I get are laughable. Actually, it's often not presented as questions but more as facts and I have to try to inform them in a polite manner how wrong their "facts" really are. Often times, before I even finish my statement I'm hit with yet another "fact" in some sort of machine gun like fashion which is nearly impossible to even pace. It's exhausting and at this point, quite honestly, I don't even care.

Simply put, I'm driving the most amazing car I've ever driven every day of my life. It's like driving the future and it has improved my quality of life in countless ways that are difficult to even quantify to someone who hasn't experienced one for themselves. Early on I felt compelled to bring this revelation to people who didn't even know it was out there but now... I just don't give a hobo's crap what other people do. If they're hell-bent on keeping their horse-drawn carriage and convincing everyone (and mostly themselves) all of the ways it's better... go right on ahead. At this point, I codln't care less what you drive and only wish anti-Tesla people just took the same approach.

I love cars & trucks. Always have. It's been a passion for the better part of my life. I've prided myself in working on and modifying (heavily) most everything I've owned from cheap beaters to high-end sports cars and toys. I feel as though I'm a qualified person to give proper reviews on such things and the cars are just amazing. Full stop. No qualifiers or things like "best EV" or "best sedan" are needed. It's easily the best vehicle I've ever owned in every single category and makes no compromises to do so. Some will say a range of "only" 300-400 miles is a compromise but I never once exceeded that distance in any ICE vehicle I ever own so to all but 0.001% this is irrelevant. The real interesting data point though is how much my wife loves it and how much it's improved her quality of life. She's admittedly NOT a car person. Now, after about a year of driving her Model S she's 100% in love with her car and gushes about it regularly.

But hey, people can just stick their heads in the sand because change is scary.

Meh. Your statements are just as biased as theirs. One might say if their head is in the sand, yours is in the clouds.

The statements that "Multiple studies have shown that Total Cost of Ownership of a Tesla is lower over the long term than comparable ICE-powered vehicles." Is completely open to interpretation so much so it sounds like propaganda to me.

Ev technology is really neat. I personally hope it continues to evolve, especially the application of semis. However it's not anywhere near where it needs to be for me to consider putting my money into it.

[Justin]

I read this kind of statement and have to wonder how long is "long term"? The model S only started shipping in late 2012.

The additional cost of electric vs. ICE often takes many years (sometimes around 10) to ever recover the purchase price difference. Now that the US is a net exporter of oil, gas prices are remaining reasonable. A Nissan Leaf avg. sale price is $28,683 and an ICE Versa is $13,932. At $2.50/gallon, that's about 5,900 gallons (546 fill-ups) worth of cost difference.

Oil changes/filters are not what they used to be with modern synthetic oils (often annual/10K miles).

Cost per mile with electric is still cheaper than gas, even at $2.50, assuming you aren't super charging, which you won't do for 95% of the time. I'm not sure where you're getting 10,000 miles between oil changes. I can tell you that my car is supposed to get them every 3,000, and the idiot light on the dash comes on promptly at 5,000.

On top of that, with an EV there's no need for all of the regular maintance that shows up at 60k, 120k, etc. miles. There's no valves or spark plugs or any of that other stuff. Brake jobs are much fewer and far between due to the fact that the brakes see much less wear due to regenerative braking.

The other thing I have to wonder is what is the comparative mileage on the Teslas vs. ICE vehicles? I could see the mileage limitations and charge times of EV keeping average mileage lower. There's also likely much more down time for repeated recharging vs. annual ICE servicing.

Charge times aren't an issue for any situation outside of a long-range trip. Most EV owners have a charging station installed at home and they just plug in the car when they get home from work and it charges overnight, so it's not like the average EV owner is standing around waiting on their vehicle to charge. I would expect that most EV owners spend way less time waiting around at a super charger than an ICE owner spends standing around at gas stations in a given year for this very reason.

EVs are often heavier than ICE due to the batteries. The electric motors also have quite a bit of torque. What is the delta on tire wear between EVs and ICE?

Would love to see some real statistics that aren't coming from the Church of Tesla.

I've seen no indication that EVs have faster tire wear than ICE vehicles. I would expect that as long as you aren't launching from every red light in Ludicrous mode that tire wear between EVs and ICE cars is probably comparable.