"Electric Vehicles are Actually Worse for the Environment than Internal Combustion Cars"

[ray1970]

And a Starbucks Latte. lulz

Well of course. Who goes anywhere without their Starbucks?

And fitting a queen size mattress in the Tesla is impressive. I don?t think one of those would fit in the bed of my truck. Maybe a twin. But not a queen. Stupid wheel wells.

[ray1970]

So, wrong pronoun.

; )

Eh. Grammar was never really my thing.

[hollohas]

Even on the longer trips if you play your cards right it may still not take much longer than making the same run in an ICE vehicle. In some cases it could even be quicker depending on many possible factors.

In what world?

Let's say I'm driving to Kansas City, a trip I have made many times. 600 miles ish.

In an EV, 75 mph, with a 75-min 100% charge halfway there (Looks like Colby, KS is the Supercharger stop @ 250 miles, but that might mean I'd have to stop again somewhere along the way and "top off"), that's 9 hours 15 minutes, plus a potential 2nd stop. (Per the Tesla supercharger website that'd cost me $50 to charge).

In a gas car, 75 mph, with a 10 minute fill-up halfway there, that's that's 8 hours, 10 minutes. (Per the Tesla Super charger website, that'd cost me $81/gas)

So I saved $31 and spent minimum an extra hour traveling if I took an EV...IF, and that's a BIG if, I got max mileage out of my EV. That's pushing it, especially it I used my AC/Heat or anything else.

And what factor(s) would make it quicker in an EV? Because, damn near any gas vehicle has a range equal-to or exceeding EV's. Add any stop to re-fuel, and the gas auto is going to save time.

[Jer]

Charging stations are not free - we all pay into them - along with paying for the subsidies EV purchasers enjoy.
Creating the electricity that goes into an EV is not "clean energy."
Some states already have rolling blackouts due to a lack of electricity in the summer months. What happens when everyone is doubling their electricity needs by driving EVs? More unclean energy production?

Biggest scam yet. The politically connected are getting rich of this nonsense. Even bigger than the damn wind and solar farms.

Physics ain't that difficult - and it cannot be broken.

Here we go. You don't pay a dime for Superchargers. The bill goes to Tesla. If you bought a Tesla then there is some cost association built into the selling price of your car. Tax payers don't subsidize Superchargers.

Your slight at EV subsidies assumes that there are other means of transportation that don't get gov't subsidy. How much do we subsidize the cost of oil/gas? I don't buy gas or oil yet my taxes go to keep the cost of oil and gas artificially stable and low. Who benefits from that? Are you trying to tell me that oil companies don't take any handouts and are non-profits trying to make the world a better place? lol

BTW, if you're talking about loans and "handouts" it should be noted that the loan that Tesla took (like the other manufacturers) has been paid back in full years ahead of schedule (unlike the other car manufacturers who are rapidly headed towards insolvency).

Creating the energy that goes into an EV is only as clean as the state wants it to be. Some states still burn a LOT of coal for production. Many use far far less. All are moving towards a larger amount of renewable energy sources for production. EVs take the middle man (fuel refinery/production/distro) out of the picture. It's up to states to implement cleaner production and whatever improvements are made at the highest level are magnified by EVs. This is a pretty simple concept that many like to overlook in their anti-EV rants.

Saying that states have electricity issues is exactly why EV is important. It's driving (pun intended) the battery technology that will be used to stabilize our electrical grid. Look at places like Australia and Hawaii where electricity costs are through the roof and brown/black outs are common. Tesla steps in with Powerwall and Powerpack solutions and nearly overnight their problems are going away. Inside of those Powewalls and Powerpacks... the exact same cells that are in the cars. Tell me again how this is HURTING power generation and supply.

I love how in your scenario the "politically connected" are the clean energy and EV industries that are the big bad wolf looking to blow the poor little innocent oil companies straw houses down. ROFL

[Irving]

I have no skin in the game but I really don't think electric cars are any more "clean" than a gas burning ones.

Part of my fascination with this discussion is the amount of people who don't really have anything to say about EV in general, but just want to argue against stuff that they've heard in the past, and almost never in the threads started. I'm using this quote as an example because it is the most common one, not because I think this is what you are doing. Others certainly are though.

I get that the first people to be excited about EV cars were those who touted the idea that it's cleaner than ICE vehicles. Whether that is or isn't the case, doesn't matter at this point. EV has entered the market and the reasons for looking to own can change from the boutique interests that first generated publicity.

Basically if you (general) don't consider environmental factors for any of your other purchases, then stop talking about whether batteries are greener or not.
Same with towing. If you own any vehicles that can't tow 12,000 lbs over a mountain pass, but then think that is a valid talking point in whether an EV is a worthwhile purchase, then you should probably go back to eating glue at the kids table.

[Jer]

Serious question regarding Tesla's specifically.

What system is in place to allow emergency personnel to open the doors after an accident? How does that work with their fancy door handles?

Only reason I ask that is because I just read an article about a Tesla that crashed and responders said they couldn't open the doors...

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...killing-driver

I don't know the details of this story. If it's like most of the other "Tesla kills driver... film at 11" stories I read I'm sure that more details will emerge in the months to come but I don't know enough to make a judgement on this specific situation.

Cars are scary things and people die in them every day. If the door was inoperable why couldn't they just smash the glass the get him out if the jaws of life were too far away? I don't know what extraction methods were attempted or which couldn't be. It seems to me that if someone inside was going to die and could be saved they wouldn't have just checked the door handle and walked away. These types situations happen every day in all sorts of car makes so I'm not going to sit here and say that lack of door handles killed the driver because I have next to zero details other than: guy was driving tesla, car hits tree, guy dies. Everything else at this point just more of the same doom and gloom the MSM wants to sell us.

Never mind that the NHTSA recently released it's results of a study that found that Tesla cars have the lowest probability of injury of any vehicle made and the margin was significant. Never mind that Autopilot has been around long enough that we have significant data to show that you're actually far less likely to be in an accident with Autopilot enabled then you are w/o it because nobody hears about these things. Instead, one person dies in a car accident and the "media" rushes to blame Tesla because, let's face it, if the headline of that story doesn't have the word "Tesla" in it nobody cares.

[Great-Kazoo]

Yeah, that's exactly it man. We've all made bonehead mistakes and you will learn from them regardless of what propulsion system your vehicle uses.

I would say that if your wife's commute is on the shorter side to give it a try. That was our plan to start with her car and keep my truck. We realized once we owned one that it was just an improvement on that aspect of our lives and got a 2nd. The truck will likely be for sale as it's sat for about 5 months now with a battery tender on it. The couple of times I've driven it li I'm amazed at how much of a POS it now feels like even though I love that truck.

Does that mean the thread[s] where you're fellating Tacomas, should be deleted from history ?

How long will the EV love affair last?

[ray1970]

I prefer the piquant flavor of paste to glue. Maybe I?m a snob like that.

[Irving]

After my last post I realized that Jer set the tone of the environmental aspect of this thread with the title.

[izzy]

Part of my fascination with this discussion is the amount of people who don't really have anything to say about EV in general, but just want to argue against stuff that they've heard in the past, and almost never in the threads started. I'm using this quote as an example because it is the most common one, not because I think this is what you are doing. Others certainly are though.

I get that the first people to be excited about EV cars were those who touted the idea that it's cleaner than ICE vehicles. Whether that is or isn't the case, doesn't matter at this point. EV has entered the market and the reasons for looking to own can change from the boutique interests that first generated publicity.

Basically if you (general) don't consider environmental factors for any of your other purchases, then stop talking about whether batteries are greener or not.
Same with towing. If you own any vehicles that can't tow 12,000 lbs over a mountain pass, but then think that is a valid talking point in whether an EV is a worthwhile purchase, then you should probably go back to eating glue at the kids table.

I don't care about electric cars one way or the other. I have read a bunch on the topic of lithium mining however, for no other reason than curiosity. If someone is going to try to say that's a clean process and I disagree I'm going to chime in about that. Pretty sure that's on topic weather I care about it or not.


I'll head over to the kids table now ttyl