"Electric Vehicles are Actually Worse for the Environment than Internal Combustion Cars"

[.455_Hunter]

How is it not exactly the same as a regular gas station? You can't fill two cars at once with a single nozzle, so there are many. If all of the pumps are occupied at the same time, someone waits.

It's the number of hook-ups and the processing time that causes issues. Assuming the 10 miles per minute charging rate, it would take up to a half-hour per car to "fill up". Can you immagine waiting in a gas line where almost every vehicle is taking 30 minutes to fuel? How about when everybody wants to charge in Dillon/Silverthorn after skiing? What happens to your EV when you are stuck on the Eisenhower Tunnel approach in a blizzard with the heat, blower and wipers running constantly with a 30% battery that you should have charged but didn't because 40 other EVs were already in line at the last station?

[skoodge]

I read something the other week when the cold snap hit the US. Electric vehicles ranges were dropping up to 40+%. The cold on the battery was a big factor in the drop, but also the need for using th car heater because there's no engine to pull the heat from so you have to use additional charge to power the heater.

That's a decent deterrent for me as it is cold and the family needs the heater quite a few months of the year.

[Irving]

It's the number of hook-ups and the processing time that causes issues. Assuming the 10 miles per minute charging rate, it would take up to a half-hour per car to "fill up". Can you immagine waiting in a gas line where almost every vehicle is taking 30 minutes to fuel? How about when everybody wants to charge in Dillon/Silverthorn after skiing? What happens to your EV when you are stuck on the Eisenhower Tunnel approach in a blizzard with the heat, blower and wipers running constantly with a 30% battery that you should have charged but didn't because 40 other EVs were already in line at the last station?

You're making a pretty simple mistake in that you're imagining a world that has many, many times more EVs than are currently on the market, but some how not more stations and no improvements in charge times. These are absolutely silly examples. What happens when your POS car overheats during the same blizzard on the same approach and then causes a traffic jam that holds up the tow truck to come get you out of the way. Mean while you're only wearing shorts, have no jacket or blanket, have to pee and are very thirsty. From my time working at AAA that is a real thing that happens in real life, but it is in no way an argument against driving a certain type of vehicle. Don't do dumb things is the answer.

Also, if one is so close to a major city as a ski resort, then you won't need a full charge to get to another charging station. Have you ever only filled up a few gallons in the middle of no where, just enough to get you to a gas station back in town with cheaper gas? It's the same thing. I can't wrap my head around why people have such a difficult time discussing certain topics. Full charge = X time so all charges are always from zero to full for full charge time? Obviously not. Some people fill their tanks when they get to half. Why would it be any different with an EV? If I'm in Dillon on only 30% and I need 50% to make it home comfortably. I can easily fill to 60% and be on my way. That gives me plenty of room to actually make it into the city if traffic is a mess or there is a road closure that extends my trip or something and there will be more charge stations on the way.

Do you think anyone warns their friends from buying diesel vehicles because they use twice as much oil when it comes time to change the oil? I'm sure that person exists, but no one is listening to them.

[Irving]

I read something the other week when the cold snap hit the US. Electric vehicles ranges were dropping up to 40+%. The cold on the battery was a big factor in the drop, but also the need for using th car heater because there's no engine to pull the heat from so you have to use additional charge to power the heater.

That's a decent deterrent for me as it is cold and the family needs the heater quite a few months of the year.

Find what you read and post it.

[Jer]

Not sure how being without power for weeks isn't a "big deal", but I guess we should ask the folks in Georgia and the Carolinas who got double tapped by hurricanes last year.

A modern gas station can process a large number of vehicles per hour at the pumps. I do not see how such a system would work where everybody wants to charge at the same spot and the same time, especially on rural interstates at "natural" stopping points, like Limon or Raton.

An EV works good for people in Boulder who generally never venture outside the "bubble" on a daily basis and have an alternate car for going skiing or driving to other states.

Gas stations use power too. On our road trip last summer there was a fire in Utah. I80 was closed & everyone had to exit. The only gas station there had lines back to I80 & miles back. We pulled up to the Supercharger, plugged in to top it off (for free) and upon walking over to the gas station for drinks & the bathroom we discovered that the line was there because they were closed. Reason: no power. That sure sucks we thought to ourselves as we went back to the hotel where our car was parked to use their restroom & get back on the road. We had to divert to South of SLC on back roads & juice up again at the Supercharger on the East side of SLC before we continued back on I80. We lost maybe a half hour to 45min due to the detour. All those others? Who knows. My guess is many slept in their cars that night.

Moral of the story is there are specific examples where emergencies & disasters cause set-backs that affect day to day life. Acting like any one solution is impervious to ALL unforseen situations is kinda silly.

Saying you HAVE to own a 2nd ICE & live in Boulder to own an EV is just dumb.

[Great-Kazoo]

We can agree that EV's are not for everyone, or will work for every task. Out here the nearest charging station is in a part of prescott that we don't or have a need to be. .

Urban centric folks will find them more to their lifestyle, same for some forum members. That need to be near higher density areas where one has a 5 min drive for overpriced coffee and trendy food stores.


Factor in a rocky company that could take a dump. Leaving Tesla owners uncharged with little or not support down the road.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/betsyat.../#5e49949a68e1

[BushMasterBoy]

Why don't they have solar panels on the roof of the car. At least you could use the cell phone, if the car and cell battery are dead. Contingencies...

[Jer]

It's the number of hook-ups and the processing time that causes issues. Assuming the 10 miles per minute charging rate, it would take up to a half-hour per car to "fill up". Can you immagine waiting in a gas line where almost every vehicle is taking 30 minutes to fuel? How about when everybody wants to charge in Dillon/Silverthorn after skiing? What happens to your EV when you are stuck on the Eisenhower Tunnel approach in a blizzard with the heat, blower and wipers running constantly with a 30% battery that you should have charged but didn't because 40 other EVs were already in line at the last station?

10 miles per minute? ROFL

Tesla Supercharger regularly hit speeds of 300mph. They've also recently announced they will increase their speed (again) significantly this year. Many guestimate a charge rate of nearly double based on the electrical supply ceiling.

All your other examples are just stupid people doing stupid shit. That same idiot also doesn't stop for gas & runs out in the middle of winter too. Tesla has solved a lot of mankind's problems but then can't eradicate stupidity entirely.

[Jer]

I read something the other week when the cold snap hit the US. Electric vehicles ranges were dropping up to 40+%. The cold on the battery was a big factor in the drop, but also the need for using th car heater because there's no engine to pull the heat from so you have to use additional charge to power the heater.

That's a decent deterrent for me as it is cold and the family needs the heater quite a few months of the year.

This is where I stated you can't lump ALL EVs in the same category. Yes, some EVs experience decreased efficiency in the winter months that can be in the 40% range. Tesla has better (and patented) temperature control of their packs to where this isn't as much of a factor. I'd say probably half of that give or take.

EV haters will say "but that's still 20% less efficiency in winter!" Without noting that the same loss in efficiency is experienced on ICE cars as well.

Face it, bitter cold is hell on all vehicle types.

[Irving]

Isn't 300 miles per hour only 5 miles per minute?