"Electric Vehicles are Actually Worse for the Environment than Internal Combustion Cars"

[Martinjmpr]

Subsidies aren't necessarily a bad thing. Anything you get a tax break on is in reality a subsidy. Home ownership, child care, charitable donations, education - I could go on.

There's also nothing new about government offering subsidies to benefit specific industries or to incentivize specific behavior. You think the West would have been settled if not for the 160 free acres of land offered to settlers through the Homestead Act? Or that mining would have flourished if not for the "subsidies" (in the form of royalty-free minerals) in the General Mining Law of 1872? Or that the Transcontinental Railroad would have been built if the builders hadn't been granted big chunks of land in exchange for building track?

Depending on how you characterize it, the oil and gas industry is very heavily "subsidized" by the US taxpayer. From 1872 until the Mineral Leasing Act of 1920, oil companies pumped tens of millions of dollars of oil out of public land and didn't pay so much as a single cent for it. Even the current scheme of oil and gas leasing has producers paying less in royalties than they would pay to private land owners, so that's a "subsidy" too.

And what are import duties on imported products if not a "subsidy" to the domestic producers of the same product (by giving a price break to the buyer of a domestic product?)

So I really don't have an issue with EV subsidies. I'm skeptical about the practicalities of EVs for all purpose use and I'm skeptical about the capacity of our current electrical grid to support widespread adoption of EVs. The other issue is that the current crop of EVs are suited for suburban-dwellers who have a garage and a place to plug in. Those who live in older neighborhoods, big cities, etc, where they have no garage, driveway or parking lot and might have to park 2 blocks away from their apartment - where do they plug in?

[clodhopper]

Subsidies aren't necessarily a bad thing. Anything you get a tax break on is in reality a subsidy. Home ownership, child care, charitable donations, education - I could go on.

There's also nothing new about government offering subsidies to benefit specific industries or to incentivize specific behavior. You think the West would have been settled if not for the 160 free acres of land offered to settlers through the Homestead Act? Or that mining would have flourished if not for the "subsidies" (in the form of royalty-free minerals) in the General Mining Law of 1872? Or that the Transcontinental Railroad would have been built if the builders hadn't been granted big chunks of land in exchange for building track?

Depending on how you characterize it, the oil and gas industry is very heavily "subsidized" by the US taxpayer. From 1872 until the Mineral Leasing Act of 1920, oil companies pumped tens of millions of dollars of oil out of public land and didn't pay so much as a single cent for it. Even the current scheme of oil and gas leasing has producers paying less in royalties than they would pay to private land owners, so that's a "subsidy" too.

And what are import duties on imported products if not a "subsidy" to the domestic producers of the same product (by giving a price break to the buyer of a domestic product?)

I dont disagree with you. I am not saying that subsidies are always wrong. However, many do not. We subsidize everything anymore. When/how does the invisible hand of the free market work to everyone's favor when the govt is prespending your taxes on goods/services you didnt want in the first place? For example, mandated ethanol in our gas. EV cars are just one of a million things that are not essential, have their own environmental issues, yet the govt is spending our tax money to support EV makers directly and subsidizing buyers as well. If all that money is being spent, then either the product is not that good, or the people dont really want it. My suspicion is the technology has not reached the point where the product is cheaper than the alternatives, or equivalent anyway. That time is coming and when it does, people will be clamoring for the things and the govt wont need to push it.

We dont need the federal government twiddling every aspect of our lives and making decisions for us. Or maybe it is just the way I look at things.

Again, to each his own. If an EV fits your life, great. An no, I have no issues with people taking advantage of EV purchase subsidies. The program was voted in and you would be stupid to not use it. I also advocate that people take advantage of every tax deduction possible. I would rather see our political environment moving away from caretaker status.