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  1. #1
    BANNED....or not? Skip's Avatar
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    Default CO HB19-1312 School Immunization Requirements

    Colorado bill which tightens loopholes that allow parents to opt out of child vaccinations advances

    https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...ating-children

    The changes would not deny parents the ability to opt their children out of vaccinations but essentially creates more steps for them to go through. After the first year of going through the process, parents would be able to fill out an online form each year.

    ?This bill is about safety ? nothing less and nothing more,? he said.
    This has everything we like: registration, continuous tracking, "public safety" overwhelming individual rights.

    How many CO moms are about to get an education in the awesome power of the police state they've created? Story is right about our low MMR rate (88%) so it would seem a lot of parents are not vaccinating in the state.

    We decided to vaccinate after reviewing/researching, but I think this is a deeply personal decision everyone has a right to make for their own children. What other medical interventions can the state compel a person to undergo?

    I continue to find it odd that Libs state you have complete privacy rights to an abortion and "my body my choice" but those concepts don't apply when they perceive a collective benefit/consequence. It's almost like they aren't being intellectually honest.
    Always eat the vegans first

  2. #2
    Varmiteer 20X11's Avatar
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    If I am to be denied the right to eliminate "Typhoid Mary" to protect myself and my family, I damned well better have the right to vaccinate her ass.

  3. #3
    Gong Shooter OxArt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skip View Post
    We decided to vaccinate after reviewing/researching, but I think this is a deeply personal decision everyone has a right to make for their own children. What other medical interventions can the state compel a person to undergo?
    I'm not so sure it's a "deeply personal decision etc. etc." to be honest, because of the facts and the situation at hand. I don't believe "rights" extend to ignorant risk to others lives, e.g. someone doesn't have a right to wave a loaded gun all around including at my family. Likewise, they don't have the "right" to willfully get newborns (mine) and their fellows infected with disabling or killer viruses, without good cause - e.g. for no benefit other than to "pet" their conspiratory world view and/or mental illness.

    The issue with vaccines is they aren't perfect; their primary immunity comes from herd immunity (limiting a contagion spread to prevent epidemic infections). Have a lot of unvaccinated people in the "herd" and there is a tipping point where the vaccines no longer immunize a lot of people even who received them.

    More importantly though, there are a lot of vaccines that you cannot give to newborns, or immuno-compromised people, including the measles vaccine (wait until one year). Do newborns have a "right" to life that is less significant than another parents "right" to be a fucking idiot? It is near impossible to isolate a newborn - 1 year old from unvaccinated kids and idiots at this point. Measles infection rates are rapidly rising now, after being wiped out of this country prior to the rise of Jenny McCarthy. Whooping cough, if anyone has ever seen it, is one of the worst things you could infect an infant with and imposes an unseen level of suffering on the child and their family.

    The *only* defense against most viruses is a vaccine and herd mentality, and to protect the ones who legitimately cant vaccinate, the ones who can have to be. Even in all our advances, we have nothing else to fight most of these viruses with. People should have the "right" to opt-out with cause (immuno-compromised, etc.) but not because they are an utter moron, much like they don't have a right to be careless with firearms because they are a moron, it's not an excuse that should be recognized. I recognize you vaccinated yours, not attacking you, just don't believe people have the "right" to willfully get newborns and infants of responsible parents infected with disabling or killer viruses.

  4. #4
    BANNED....or not? Skip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OxArt View Post
    I'm not so sure it's a "deeply personal decision etc. etc." to be honest, because of the facts and the situation at hand. I don't believe "rights" extend to ignorant risk to others lives, e.g. someone doesn't have a right to wave a loaded gun all around including at my family. Likewise, they don't have the "right" to willfully get newborns (mine) and their fellows infected with disabling or killer viruses, without good cause - e.g. for no benefit other than to "pet" their conspiratory world view and/or mental illness.

    The issue with vaccines is they aren't perfect; their primary immunity comes from herd immunity (limiting a contagion spread to prevent epidemic infections). Have a lot of unvaccinated people in the "herd" and there is a tipping point where the vaccines no longer immunize a lot of people even who received them.

    [snip]
    The bold part is the argument for gun control, FYI. Almost verbatim. Grabbers say the exact thing about "assault rifles..." No one needs them, they put the public at risk, 2A isn't absolute, etc...

    Vaccines are not only imperfect (effective) but have risks, as does any medical intervention. Dispense enough doses of Tylenol and you'll eventually see risk. This is why people have to make the choice.

    The autism link has been thoroughly discredited as was the Dr who published that initial study. Although I think there probably is a autism/environment link, I have yet to this proven.

    Allowing the gov to compel the assumption of individual risk for collective reward is an interesting and slippery thing in any context. There is certainly good utility/benefit in vaccinating for the individual/parent too but this is an opinion. A good opinion, IMHO, and a consensus, but not absolute.

    Closing the borders and screening would also be a good defense. Of course, that's out of the question because it would end the Great Replacement. We're seeing a lot of scary stuff...

    https://www.thedenverchannel.com/lif...losis-outbreak
    Always eat the vegans first

  5. #5
    Zombie Slayer Zundfolge's Avatar
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    I have no problem with the state requiring children to be vaccinated if they wish for them to attend public schools. But that is the extent of the power the state should have in this matter.
    Modern liberalism is based on the idea that reality is obligated to conform to one's beliefs because; "I have the right to believe whatever I want".

    "Everything the State says is a lie, and everything it has it has stolen.
    -Friedrich Nietzsche

    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people."
    -Penn Jillette

    A World Without Guns <- Great Read!

  6. #6
    I'm the OPie of this thread Irving's Avatar
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    I don't think this goes far enough. They should jail people who think the Earth is flat as well.
    Minimize, minimize, minimize.

  7. #7
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    It doesn't matter to the newborn as this same government doesn't require the vaccinations of those entering the country illegally. Your chances of getting something from someone here illegally is a good if not more so than from an unvaccinated child.
    If you want peace, prepare for war.

  8. #8
    I'm the OPie of this thread Irving's Avatar
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    Cause illegals and newborns are hanging out together at daycare?

    ETA: I know what you're trying to say.
    Last edited by Irving; 04-16-2019 at 21:38.
    Minimize, minimize, minimize.

  9. #9
    Gong Shooter OxArt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skip View Post
    Although I think there probably is a autism/environment link, I have yet to this proven.
    There is some studies showing a link to SSRI use in utero. How significant of a link, I can't say.

    And it's not a direct comparison to "gun control" as there's a difference between responsible gun owners (only shooting bullets downrange at safe places) and irresponsible gun owners (shooting through trees into houses, etc.)

    On the other hand, there is no responsible unvaccinated person, unless they segregate themselves from society entirely. Because you cannot see pathogens, and they will already be contagious before they even have symptoms, they don't have an ability "to be responsible". Even if you wash your hands, and avoid sick people, and you're very clean, you could still be shedding a virus at a time when you're around newborns or infants that will kill them, prior to you even being aware you're sick. (Typhoid mary comment on point).

    It's more akin to people asking for gun control if your guns, in theory, could start shooting bullets at people without your awareness.

  10. #10
    BANNED....or not? Skip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zundfolge View Post
    I have no problem with the state requiring children to be vaccinated if they wish for them to attend public schools. But that is the extent of the power the state should have in this matter.
    This is probably the best way of handling it. You want access to gov education? Comply by the rules. Don't like the rules? Roll your own.

    And much smarter than asking parents to register their human every year!

    I'm sure the ACLU would sue over it.


    Quote Originally Posted by OxArt View Post
    There is some studies showing a link to SSRI use in utero. How significant of a link, I can't say.

    And it's not a direct comparison to "gun control" as there's a difference between responsible gun owners (only shooting bullets downrange at safe places) and irresponsible gun owners (shooting through trees into houses, etc.) .
    Not in your mind (or mine!), but this is what the Liberal believes. She believe guns are inherently dangerous and the risk to society outweighs any individual right to have one.


    Quote Originally Posted by OxArt View Post
    On the other hand, there is no responsible unvaccinated person, unless they segregate themselves from society entirely. Because you cannot see pathogens, and they will already be contagious before they even have symptoms, they don't have an ability "to be responsible". Even if you wash your hands, and avoid sick people, and you're very clean, you could still be shedding a virus at a time when you're around newborns or infants that will kill them, prior to you even being aware you're sick. (Typhoid mary comment on point).

    It's more akin to people asking for gun control if your guns, in theory, could start shooting bullets at people without your awareness.
    The part in bold... This is hoplophia and it's a real thing. There are grabbers who talk like this all the time.

    Agree, there's no way to manage it. Another reason vaccines are smart--never being able to control exposure. We went through all these reasons when researching and made our decision.

    Here's another story I found yesterday...

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other...ple/ar-BBVYpUY
    Always eat the vegans first

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