Solar Panels: Any advice?

[crays]

If you're interested in misguided gov intervention, research Solyndra.

Sent from somewhere...

[00tec]

For the better seasoned out there.... Any suggestions on companies to finance a system for a 1600 sq ft house with unfinished basement? I do not want a roof mount system, as I have plenty of room to fit a ground based system.

[Jer]

Is there any product where leasing isn't bad? I've heard the argument for leasing vehicles, but I've also heard it shot down.

If you look hard enough you'll find arguments for just about everything. Doesn't make it right.

I leased a car...once.....never again. I feel the same about solar panels. I'll buy, or i'll not buy if it doesnt make sense. Those rebates are what's got me interested. I know they're going away. if i can essentially swap a electric bill for a panel payment, i'll do it. If not, then i'll pass.

Same. Leasing is a terrible idea for countless reasons even on cars.

The rebates aren't going away entirely after 2019, just decreasing. Starting in 2020 it will decrease from 30% to 26% and then 22% for 2021 and finally 10% for 2022. You really want to do it in the next few years if you plan to to get the most bang for your buck IMO. Since we're mid-year you might find it difficult to get installed and turned on before 2020 as it's a rather lengthy process with all the permitting and what not that needs to happen. Just because you decide in June you want it doesn't guarantee you'll make the cut before the end of 2019. Just something to keep in mind. I wouldn't rush into any decisions either way.

Is the rebate really only for the labor and not the total price? If so that seems more like the gov trying to prop up the industry rather than the idea.

No, hardware and installation. I thought I stated that earlier but maybe I didn't make it clear. If your total solar bill is $30k you can expect to pay $20k.

For the better seasoned out there.... Any suggestions on companies to finance a system for a 1600 sq ft house with unfinished basement? I do not want a roof mount system, as I have plenty of room to fit a ground based system.

The people that I know that have financed did so through Tesla and have had good things to say about it. Not sure what other options exist but I know they're out there.

[Jer]

Do not, I repeat, do NOT lease solar panels. Always buy. Ideal is to pay cash with second place being a solar finance deal with a low interest rate. Do NOT give all of your savings to the bank. Never ever lease solar panels as all you're doing is making money for someone else.

Colorado has pros and cons for solar power. The primary con is that we are a large coal & natural gas production state which equals dirt cheap electricity. This means it takes longer to recoup your investment. With how efficient panels are today you're looking at about 8-10 years give or take should you pay cash and not do a battery backup. A battery backup will take longer to recoup and lots of muni's in CO don't have a variable rate based on what time you use the electricity so it really doesn't make sense to do that at this time. If where you live they charge you more for peak hours then you can play the game where you store up on your battery during the day, use off of the battery at night and sell the extra back while prioritizing paying for electrical off-peak if need be.

Solar will add about 80% to the value of your home if and only if you pay for it outright either via cash or a loan. Those who say you won't get any value are basing this out-dated info on solar leases which were a huge fad back in the day by scheister outfits trying to make a buck off of ignorant consumers. Owning solar panels outright does indeed increase the value of your home but not leasing. Did I mention to not lease solar panels?

Shop around but what you will most likely find is that Solar City is the lowest cost per kWh and best game in town. Colorado is one of the dozen or so states that Solar City is in so take advantage of that. People will bitch about Tesla for whatever reason but they're pretty much the best game in town wherever they are. Their panels are the most efficient and they've got the process down.

The feds have a 30% instant rebate for all solar and solar related installation labor through the end of 2019. That means you have to have the install done before the end of the calendar year and the .gov will lop 30% off of your bill right up front. No waiting for tax seasons or needing a massive tax liability to take advantage. It's best to get while the getting is good for sure although downsizing how many panels you do isn't a bad idea as they're gaining in efficiency in leaps and bounds making adding later a much more cost effective approach. The delta is the 30% savings now which won't take long to surpass with later additions based on how rapidly the segment is improving.

Lots of sharks in the water right now so do your research. It's a large purchase and it amazes me how many people will research what pair of slippers they want more than something like solar.

Reminder... never ever EVER lease. Ever. Just don't do it.


ETA: it is indeed a tax credit so ignore that portion of misinformation above. I found some info at one point saying that you paid the 70% portion and the installer applied to get credited back that 30% directly but it looks like you'll need to recover it in your taxes over the following couple of years.

By the way, I was wrong about it being an instant credit in this post which I amended to hopefully avoid further confusion. I found a bit of info a while back when I was giving it a cursory investigation that lead me to believe that you paid just the 70% portion of the bill and the installer got reimbursed for the 30% directly through the government. This appears to be wrong so your tax liability needs to be able to absorb whatever amount you're due for your particular install. If you did a massive system with battery backup and bought a couple of EVs all in the same year you better have some massive tax liability to recoup those credits all at once.

[Irving]

Does any company make triangular panels for hip roofs? Realize that a square is most efficient with solar cells and racking systems but seems like some triangle pieces on a few sides of a hip roof could add up to another 2-5 panels on the roof.

One time* I was explaining to an old lady that she had a hip roof and she asked me not to use jive speak with her.








*That never happened.

[Great-Kazoo]

So with advice to not lease, but just buy them, which i agree with. if you can't afford it don't go in to hock over it.


Exactly where does one come up with say $15K without borrowing money from somewhere? My basic math says it would take me (again based on low ball numbers) 12 years before i'd break even on a solar investment. Crunching numbers of average electric bill, there's no way solar, for us, will ever be a positive investment.

[Irving]

Besides looking dumb for your neighbors, how realistic would it be to pay for the racking and electrical to be installed, then add panels as one can afford? Adding panels is just bolt them into the rack and plug in the panel. It's as easy plug and play as it gets. If you set up the racking and electrical to fit the total planned panels, having less shouldn't be a problem. I assume that the city wouldn't let this fly as they'd want to inspect the final product. Never mind.

[Gman]

Until residential solar customers are completely disconnected from the grid, the grid must be maintained. Just as governments are looking to charge EV owners additional fees due to lost gas tax revenues, I expect something similar for residential solar.

[Jer]

Does any company make triangular panels for hip roofs? Realize that a square is most efficient with solar cells and racking systems but seems like some triangle pieces on a few sides of a hip roof could add up to another 2-5 panels on the roof.

One time* I was explaining to an old lady that she had a hip roof and she asked me not to use jive speak with her.

*That never happened.

Nope, they make rectangular and if you have obstructions on your roof or something casts a consistent shadow on a certain spot they just don't put panels there. Many refer to this as the "missing tooth" look which some dislike if it's on the side people see from the street. Something to consider if this bothers you.

So with advice to not lease, but just buy them, which i agree with. if you can't afford it don't go in to hock over it.


Exactly where does one come up with say $15K without borrowing money from somewhere? My basic math says it would take me (again based on low ball numbers) 12 years before i'd break even on a solar investment. Crunching numbers of average electric bill, there's no way solar, for us, will ever be a positive investment.

I would say it's not a wise investment for most unless you aren't doing it from a money saving standpoint but rather a "world saving" standpoint. Many people actually have an option to pay for electricity from a "renewable" source at a premium and choose it. Not really my thing but, I digress.

Too many people don't factor in the cost of the loan when determining when the "break even" date would be. These same people often don't realize what they're actually paying to a lending institution as a total figure which can be quite alarming if they actually knew. This is why often times it's buried in pages of docs that many don't bother reading.

If you know ALL of the numbers and still feel as though solar is right for you even including financing figures... go for it. I didn't say to never ever finance just that if you are in a financial situation to pay cash it makes the most sense. Duh. Right? If you need to finance just get the best deal and then make sure you understand how that will skew your "break even" date when you're making your decision. Don't rush into any foolish decisions to get your solar in by the end of 2019 as it will likely cost you thousands to save hundreds.

Also, never ever lease. Ever. Just in case that was confusing when I was discussing the three options and my opinion of them.

[Jer]

Besides looking dumb for your neighbors, how realistic would it be to pay for the racking and electrical to be installed, then add panels as one can afford? Adding panels is just bolt them into the rack and plug in the panel. It's as easy plug and play as it gets. If you set up the racking and electrical to fit the total planned panels, having less shouldn't be a problem. I assume that the city wouldn't let this fly as they'd want to inspect the final product. Never mind.

I guess it depends on your idea of "looking dumb" but these days they don't look too bad at all and that's if you can even spot them. I just found out recently that two of our neighbors have solar and I've still only seen one of them myself even though we walk our neighborhood nightly and I actively look for the second. The panels they use these days are low profile and look much better than panels of yore. You can even get them w/o the white grids so they stand out even less. These come at a premium and aren't as efficient as the lined ones so most don't opt for them but they're an option. They also have roof tiles that are slowly becoming available to consumers that look amazing but they're nowhere as efficient as the panels and are quite expensive. It's cool though to think that in our lifetime we'll have a tile option that looks as good or better than a regular shingle roof and produces electricity for free from an otherwise dead area. There is a lot of permitting and BS that goes in to do this properly. As I think about what you typed I think you meant more about the grid installed w/o panels in some portions. I'm too lazy to go back and edit so... deal with what I typed! lol

Whoever installs will install whatever panels you want. I don't think they will install a bunch of brackets and wiring in preparation for future expansion but I also don't think you'll be saving much by doing this anyway. Think about all the years that extra you spent to install the ability to expand could have been better invested elsewhere offsetting whatever extra "trip charge" you get down the road. There's also a strong probability that whatever you buy down the road will require different wiring and components to where what you installed today might not even be compatible with new systems.

Until residential solar customers are completely disconnected from the grid, the grid must be maintained. Just as governments are looking to charge EV owners additional fees due to lost gas tax revenues, I expect something similar for residential solar.

I'm sure you're right. I don't know how that will look but the guv always gets it's cut... just a question of how large each slice is to make up the pie. Find a way to eliminate a slice and they will just make the other slices larger.

We're just in the early phases of how all of this will lay out but it's promising to know that someday, eventually.... electricity will be free. That's dream and end-game anyway for those who are gung ho into this sort of thing. This opens up lots of possibilities.