Gun Free Zones are the real problem.

[Irving]

Those ideals are nice, and usually sound, but whether they translate into the desire results in actual situations isn't guaranteed. I'm not saying I disagree.

Let me explain where I'm coming from. I have a friend who is into guns, but his wife isn't. After changing jobs where she is often at the office by herself, she started thinking about a way to defend herself should she need to. I suggested pepper spray, but my friend wasn't going to miss an opportunity to buy another gun, so she ended up with a .38 spl in her purse. We were camping and she was trying to show her gun to her dad. Neither of them could get it out of the holster and they were taking turns flagging each other trying (I didn't directly see this part so couldn't have said anything at the time). Anyway, she has no idea what she's doing and is not in any way more safe now than before she had a gun. In fact I'd argue that anyone around her is now considerably less safe.

I don't know the lady in the story, or her background or training, but I feel pretty confident that when you've selected guns as a hobby and have put in the requisite amount of training, then the choice between potentially protecting your life, or leaving your gun at home because it isn't allowed is an easy decision. Just tossing a gun into your purse is stopping zero shootings.

[Gman]

Why restrict the scenario to this one individual armed employee? Just because there's one being highlighted, that doesn't mean she could have been the only one.

When a collectivist policy fails, and fails to a greater degree, they will ignore it and continue to promote that policy. And they expect everyone else to forgive that failure.

Their argument is usually that the policy didn't go "far enough".

[Irving]

Those are the ones trying to make the news. I already said, I don't disagree with the sentiment, but this story is just as much fake news BS as any other media spin. The fact of the matter is that this lady didn't bring her gun to work, so it's the same as 1,000 other dudes chiming in and saying, "Well, if this had happened at MY work, things would have gone differently." I suppose if people are going to be gullible enough to think that every shooting is some false flag event, then might as well fight fire with fire and start getting people to come out of the woodwork after each one and say, "Well, I was going to bring my gun to work/school that day and could have protected everyone, but the laws didn't let so..."

[Skip]

Those ideals are nice, and usually sound, but whether they translate into the desire results in actual situations isn't guaranteed. I'm not saying I disagree.

Let me explain where I'm coming from. I have a friend who is into guns, but his wife isn't. After changing jobs where she is often at the office by herself, she started thinking about a way to defend herself should she need to. I suggested pepper spray, but my friend wasn't going to miss an opportunity to buy another gun, so she ended up with a .38 spl in her purse. We were camping and she was trying to show her gun to her dad. Neither of them could get it out of the holster and they were taking turns flagging each other trying (I didn't directly see this part so couldn't have said anything at the time). Anyway, she has no idea what she's doing and is not in any way more safe now than before she had a gun. In fact I'd argue that anyone around her is now considerably less safe.

I don't know the lady in the story, or her background or training, but I feel pretty confident that when you've selected guns as a hobby and have put in the requisite amount of training, then the choice between potentially protecting your life, or leaving your gun at home because it isn't allowed is an easy decision. Just tossing a gun into your purse is stopping zero shootings.

That's a great example of thinking a gun is a magic talisman. So I get what you're saying.

But a policy that disallows CCW and creates a GFZ doesn't just prevent the "magic talisman" carrier but also those who train and are capable. It creates a safety vacuum by making pretty darn sure the only armed person is the BG. Ironically, there is a collective benefit to CCW as well not just by collapsing that vacuum but being able to rely on others.

There's no way one person can be everywhere or see everything but if I'm surrounded by carriers my confidence goes up that a situation can be handled. Doesn't necessarily have to be by me.

[Irving]

I agree, I'm just hesitant to get on board with a narrative that is just as false as the one used against the case for bearing arms.

[CS1983]

Maybe I'll get HBAR to make me a special Thoughts and Prayers OWB holster for work. Will be detailed to look like a tiny trash can.

[Gman]

I could just see it in a Dirty Harry context;

"I've got your so-called worthless thoughts and prayers right here. Go ahead. Make me pray."

[Bailey Guns]

The reality is this woman wasn't given a chance or the opportunity due to policy. She may have been the first one shot even if she had her gun. On the other hand, she may have responded and stopped the BG either by shooting him or causing him to flee or whatever. We'll never really know the what the outcome would've been. But we certainly know the outcome of denying her the ability to bring her gun with her.

On the other hand, every single day in this country untrained individuals successfully protect themselves and others with guns. And I'm talking about people who know just enough to point the business end at the threat and pull the trigger. Or sometimes just the perception on the BG's part that someone else has a gun is enough to make his/her behavior change. It happens thousands of times per year.

So I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the idea this lady might've changed the outcome somewhat. I don't disagree with your overall take on the situation but I definitely think there's more to it that should be considered. And like Skip said...these policies also prohibit highly trained and motivated gun owners from carrying, too. People who would have a high percentage of success in an armed conflict.

My wife has a permit to carry. My wife knows only the very basics about operating her gun. She has never been in any type of physical confrontation or life/death struggle and I thank God for that. But I also have serious reservations about her ability to successfully employ her gun in a life threatening situation. But, if it does happen, at least she has the opportunity to prove me wrong.

[Irving]

I'm on board with all of that.

[TFOGGER]

It's all about the odds. Similar to the lottery, her chance of defending herself and/or others with her gun would have been minute, but without a gun it was zero.