What really brought down the Boeing 737 MAX?

[Aloha_Shooter]

One of the better written articles I've seen in the NYT.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/18/m...x-crashes.html


It's written more for laymen than https://seekingalpha.com/instablog/3...se-pilot-error

which I also recommend but the latter article is targeted more toward pilots or people familiar with operational analysis.

I still prefer Boeing's pilot-centric design philosophy over Airbus' robotic approach but that only works if airmen are at the controls -- in both seats. Ethiopian Airlines apparently has a decent reputation in the industry but I can't fathom putting someone in the right seat with 154 hours of experience. Would you hand the keys for a Ferrari to a new driver who had driven to the mall a hundred or more times?

[Gman]

I still prefer Boeing's pilot-centric design philosophy over Airbus' robotic approach but that only works if airmen are at the controls -- in both seats.

I'm in violent agreement with this. Build a durable aircraft and let the pilots do what they need to save their and their passengers' lives (BOEING). Don't have the computer fly the plane with suggestions from the crew up front (AIRBUS).

From what I've been able to determine, the FAA required Boeing to put the MCAS in place due to the engine relocation. The idea of using a single sensor and providing MCAS the ability to override the pilot input to the point of crashing the aircraft never should have happened.

(I'm not creating a login to read the NYT article)

[asystejs]

The NYT article did not require a logon for me and is a good read

[Gman]

[def90]

I'm able to read it without logging in or creating an account..

[Hoser]

We have seen many of the reports on these two crashes. This is the first mention of the Lion Air having a jump seating pilot on board.

Planes are getting bigger, faster and more complicated. They require more heads down. In the old days you had a dude to manage systems called a flight engineer. But they replaced him with a computer and lost of an extra set of eyes up front.

[Gman]

...an example of when an extra set of eyes, hands, and a brain made a difference:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...nes_Flight_232

[Aloha_Shooter]

We have seen many of the reports on these two crashes. This is the first mention of the Lion Air having a jump seating pilot on board.

Planes are getting bigger, faster and more complicated. They require more heads down. In the old days you had a dude to manage systems called a flight engineer. But they replaced him with a computer and lost of an extra set of eyes up front.

The jump seating pilot was on the flight that took off and landed successfully the night before. Reports of him helping save that flight came out some months ago but may have gotten lost in the rush to blame Boeing. As both articles I linked to point out, there were some pretty fundamental errrors in airmanship in all three flights (2 crashes and 1 near-crash). That doesn't mean Boeing is blameless but it sure seems to me that Indonesia, Ethiopia, and others would like to heap all the blame on Boeing and avoid questions about their standards.

[Gman]

The idea of selling safety systems (indicators that the angle of attack sensors were in disagreement and that the MCAS was engaged) as expensive options was pretty short-sighted and seems greedy on the part of Boeing:
They didn’t buy the DLC: feature that could’ve prevented 737 crashes was sold as an option

From what I recall, the simulators also weren't accurate as to what a pilot could experience with the 737 MAX. This was intentional as the 737 operators and Boeing didn't want to require significant retraining with the new platform.

The entire episode indicated short-comings in manufacturing, FAA oversight, and pilot training and experience.

[Gman]

I think this is the same info with a link that I can actually read:
What Really Brought Down the Boeing 737 Max?