Close
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 29

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Machine Gunner Martinjmpr's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Pueblo
    Posts
    2,108

    Default Thinking of drving for Uber, Lyft or GrubHub?

    Might want to read this first:

    https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...08Kl11GHSmxzyQ

    It must be the lawyer in me but I remember when I first heard about these services the FIRST thing I thought of was "how do they deal with insurance?" because I KNEW that most private auto insurance policies specifically EXCLUDE using the vehicle for "commercial" purposes unless that is put into the policy (and it almost never is for regular car insurance.)

    Now my understanding (corrections welcomed) is that Uber and Lyft actually do insure their drivers for liability - while they are actively driving for the service. I wonder, though, do they also insure for damage to the vehicle? Or is the driver on his own dime for that?

    I'm actually surprised that the likes of Uber and Lyft are still around. Maybe people just aren't doing the math but by the time you pay for gas, oil, maintenance and depreciation on their vehicles, I'll bet most Uber and Lyft drivers are barely earning minimum wage, if that (and consider that all that time spent washing, waxing, vacuuming the inside of the vehicle are de-facto 'requirements' of the job which should also be accounted for when figuring earnings. I mean, think about it, if you were an employee of a taxi company, they wouldn't expect you to clean the inside of your taxi on your own time, would they?)

    Then there's the whole "self employment" hassle of having to withhold your own taxes, pay additional self employment tax, etc.

    It appears that GrubHub does not insure drivers for anything, and I think that may be a problem for GrubHub. In the case above, the GrubHub driver was at fault in the accident, and her insurance company is declining to cover the accident because she was engaged in business, which is specifically excluded from her insurance coverage. But if the driver doesn't have assets to cover the loss, I could see the other driver coming after GrubHub for the damages. And I think GrubHub would have to pay up.
    Last edited by Martinjmpr; 11-25-2019 at 09:27.
    Martin

    If you love your freedom, thank a veteran. If you love to party, thank the Beastie Boys. They fought for that right.

  2. #2
    QUITTER Irving's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    46,527
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    It's the same with pizza delivery as well. In the past, insurance would just cover you, then non-renew your policy. More and more insurance companies are trying to be more strict about stuff like this and not covering at all due to breach of contract. It's the same story with being an independent contractor and being insured for one thing, but actually doing other things. Always a cat and mouse game.
    "There are no finger prints under water."

  3. #3
    Really is Llama Not_A_Llama's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    South Denver
    Posts
    992

    Default

    This reminds me of "predatory" lending schemes. Bruh, you're buying the single most expensive item you'll ever purchase in your life, and you're saying you didn't read the shit?

    Anytime someone puts a stack of paper in front of you, fuckin' read it or walk.

    The gig economy shit only works out if you're an efficient and diligent person. Otherwise, you're subsidizing the costs.
    9mm - because they don't make a 9.1mm

  4. #4
    Machine Gunner Martinjmpr's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Pueblo
    Posts
    2,108

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Not_A_Llama View Post
    Otherwise, you're subsidizing the costs.
    Bingo. Seems to me that it's almost like a pyramid scheme in the sense that it's only going to last as long as there is an constant supply of ignorant people at the bottom who are willing to bear all the costs so the people on top can make the money.

    You would think (I would certainly LIKE to think) that just like "Nigerian Prince scams", that sooner or later Uber, Lyft and Grubhub are going to run out of gullible people to do their work.

    At that point they either have to pay a truly fair compensation rate - which would cause the price of their service to skyrocket - or close down their operations. Either that or convert to a taxi service with their drivers as employees vs. "independent contractors."

    It just doesn't seem sustainable as it is.

    Now I have to confess, I've never taken an Uber or Lyft so I don't know, but how do their costs compare to a taxi service? Are they roughly comparable or are they notably less?
    Last edited by Martinjmpr; 11-25-2019 at 10:12.
    Martin

    If you love your freedom, thank a veteran. If you love to party, thank the Beastie Boys. They fought for that right.

  5. #5
    GLOCK HOOKER hurley842002's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    8,018

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Martinjmpr View Post
    Now I have to confess, I've never taken an Uber or Lyft so I don't know, but how do their costs compare to a taxi service? Are they roughly comparable or are they notably less?
    I don't recall having ever taken a taxi, but I've used Uber a handful of times, and it seems quite reasonable to me, never paid more than $10 for the ride, and then whatever I tipped the driver (always received good drivers). My rides were never more than a few miles and were only because both the wife and I were partaking in libations.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    QUITTER Irving's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    46,527
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Martinjmpr View Post
    Bingo. Seems to me that it's almost like a pyramid scheme in the sense that it's only going to last as long as there is an constant supply of ignorant people at the bottom who are willing to bear all the costs so the people on top can make the money.

    You would think (I would certainly LIKE to think) that just like "Nigerian Prince scams", that sooner or later Uber, Lyft and Grubhub are going to run out of gullible people to do their work.

    At that point they either have to pay a truly fair compensation rate - which would cause the price of their service to skyrocket - or close down their operations. Either that or convert to a taxi service with their drivers as employees vs. "independent contractors."

    It just doesn't seem sustainable as it is.

    Now I have to confess, I've never taken an Uber or Lyft so I don't know, but how do their costs compare to a taxi service? Are they roughly comparable or are they notably less?
    Every type of independent contractor type of gig is exactly like this with respect to insurance. Hire independent contractors and they are responsible for providing their own workers comp and GL. What you said about a pyramid scheme is correct, but I don't see it ending any time soon. There will always be new blood entering the work force, and you can still make good money as the independent guy.
    "There are no finger prints under water."

  7. #7
    Machine Gunner Martinjmpr's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Pueblo
    Posts
    2,108

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Irving View Post
    Every type of independent contractor type of gig is exactly like this with respect to insurance. Hire independent contractors and they are responsible for providing their own workers comp and GL.
    I agree but the difference is that Joe Schmoe who wants to open an independent contracting business already knows that, and will adjust his prices to account for all of that to include equipment depreciation, insurance, etc.

    Sally Smith who just wants to make a few bucks while her kids are at school (Which is EXACTLY who Uber advertises to on their commercials) - does SHE know that? I seriously doubt it.

    Furthermore, if I understand correctly, rates are set by Uber, not by the driver. IOW the Uber/Lyft driver gets paid a set amount based on whatever demand is at that time.

    He/she doesn't have the option of saying "I'll charge you this much to drive, plus this much surcharge to cover my insurance, plus this much to cover my depreciation, etc."

    As an Uber/Lyft driver you have two options when a ride comes up: 1. take it (at whatever the going rate is) or 2. Leave it.

    What you said about a pyramid scheme is correct, but I don't see it ending any time soon. There will always be new blood entering the work force, and you can still make good money as the independent guy.
    I wonder how many Uber or Lyft drivers are actually making 'good money' by the time you factor in (a) fuel, oil, tires, and maintenance (b) depreciation on their vehicle (c) the time and effort they have to put in to keep the vehicle presentable (which is non-compensated) and (d) their actual earnings after subtracting self-employment tax, FICO, Medicare, etc. (not to mention the time to do all that paperwork - which is also uncompensated.)

    As I said above, a building contractor, plumber, electrician, etc can adjust his rates to account for all those costs but AFAIK an Uber, Lyft or Grubhub driver doesn't have that option.
    Last edited by Martinjmpr; 11-25-2019 at 11:06.
    Martin

    If you love your freedom, thank a veteran. If you love to party, thank the Beastie Boys. They fought for that right.

  8. #8
    Possesses Antidote for "Cool" Gman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Puyallup, WA
    Posts
    17,848

    Default

    The car/insurance concept I really find nuts is Turo.
    Liberals never met a slippery slope they didn't grease.
    -Me

    I wish technology solved people issues. It seems to just reveal them.
    -Also Me


  9. #9
    QUITTER Irving's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    46,527
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    I think it's pretty well known that livery drivers working for these companies are making good money. I can't set prices for any of the contract labor I do, but what I do pays more than Lyft/Uber for sure. I have a buddy that does Doordash when he gets deployed to an area and things are slow. He says he just works a couple hours at night (3-4) until he makes about $100 and calls it quits. $100 in 3-4 hours isn't great by any means, but if you're on the road already and don't have anything better to do than sit in a motel room, it go out and spend money on entertainment, it seems like a viable option. I'm considering checking that out this winter myself actually.
    "There are no finger prints under water."

  10. #10
    Really is Llama Not_A_Llama's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    South Denver
    Posts
    992

    Default

    You just have to be strategic about what you partake in.

    If you run it like a fulltime job and are plugged-in, running an import vehicle or have a long-term rental contract, you'll do fine - plenty of dudes are making a good living and Uber even pays for online college. If you're doing a few strategic hours around bar hours in an urban area with a personal vehicle, you'll probably do fine.

    Someone hopping in and aimlessly driving a time or two a month because they saw an ad or heard about it from Karen is probably not making money.

    It's not any different from hotshot trucking when operators get lazy about finding backhauls, and we consider those people to be plugged-in and informed.

    I'm reminded of a guy I worked with who owned a newish Jeep, and anxiously volunteered at every opportunity to drive to a company site in an other state, instead of taking a flight. He was after the mileage reimbursement, which he explained to me was "free money". Then his transmission grenaded to the tune of multiple thousands of dollars in the middle of nowhere and he (of course) could not afford it. The lower classes oppress themselves. Whether you feel like legislation is the fix to "protect" them is kind of the key determinant on a person's political leanings these days.
    Last edited by Not_A_Llama; 11-25-2019 at 11:55.
    9mm - because they don't make a 9.1mm

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •