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  1. #101
    The "Godfather" of COAR Great-Kazoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OxArt View Post
    Why not openly assassinate Kim Jong Un then? Possibly no bigger humanitarian criminal alive. Or would the ramifications of that cause more problem then it's worth doing?

    Alas.... same in the middle east. Such decisions should be always taken with consideration of the long term cause, effect, cost, and value. This decision might very well have cost us Iraq... but for what benefit? As you've said, there's always another to take their place, so strategically, it doesn't really benefit, other then inducing a fear of "we'll get you individually.... but only after 20+ years of screwing with us".

    Future prediction: Trump announces a troop withdrawl from Iraq before the elections - or at least a committed plan in place to do so announced before the elections - taking credit and asserting it to be his idea. (it won't be).
    Like Obama shutting Gitmo down? Or getting us out of the middle east?
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  2. #102
    Possesses Antidote for "Cool" Gman's Avatar
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    From what I've been able to find, the US intelligence and military took into consideration if Soleimani was killed, would his replacement be better or worse for us. They determined his replacement would not be nearly as effective as Soleimani in killing Americans.

    ...and that's the key here. Soleimani had been killing Americans. As a bonus, Soleimani had been highly influential in creating unrest all over the mid-east through Iran's proxies. This will likely shake up how effective those proxies will be going forward.

    Kim Jong Un may be a humanitarian nightmare for killing his own people, but the UN should be able to take care of that any day now.
    "Be not intimidated...nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency.
    These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice."
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  3. #103
    Machine Gunner RblDiver's Avatar
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    Well, that might explain why the guy was aiming where he was. Apparently Iran shot TWO missiles, and the first missed.
    https://twitter.com/AlArabiya/status...42201974755335

  4. #104
    Possesses Antidote for "Cool" Gman's Avatar
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    Heard on the news that the President of Iran is saying those that were responsible for the missiles fired at the airliner were to be arrested and prosecuted.
    "Be not intimidated...nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency.
    These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice."
    ― John Adams
    "Success is not final, failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts."
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  5. #105
    Fleeing Idaho to get IKEA Bailey Guns's Avatar
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    ^^ Yeah, right. Some mid level officer, a few junior officers and a few enlisted people are about to lose their heads over this. None of them will be the individuals responsible.
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  6. #106
    Zombie Slayer Aloha_Shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman View Post
    Heard on the news that the President of Iran is saying those that were responsible for the missiles fired at the airliner were to be arrested and prosecuted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bailey Guns View Post
    ^^ Yeah, right. Some mid level officer, a few junior officers and a few enlisted people are about to lose their heads over this. None of them will be the individuals responsible.
    In this case, I expect the mid-grade flunkies really WERE the ones responsible. This shoot-down is sort of on the level of the Abu Ghraib atrocities. Anyone who thinks Bush or Rumsfeld ordered the guards to do what they did is an idiot. Similarly, there was NO reason for the ayatollahs to order the the shoot down of a plane that carried dozens of Iranian college students and Iranian Canadians. The whole thing smacked of people passing orders without realizing the automatic consequences.

  7. #107
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    Just remember that Iran isn't the first country to shoot down a civilian aircraft:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

    O2
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  8. #108
    Possesses Antidote for "Cool" Gman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter View Post
    In this case, I expect the mid-grade flunkies really WERE the ones responsible. This shoot-down is sort of on the level of the Abu Ghraib atrocities. Anyone who thinks Bush or Rumsfeld ordered the guards to do what they did is an idiot. Similarly, there was NO reason for the ayatollahs to order the the shoot down of a plane that carried dozens of Iranian college students and Iranian Canadians. The whole thing smacked of people passing orders without realizing the automatic consequences.
    This is my take on it as well. The Ayatollah will have no problem sacrificing whomever was operating that missile launcher. Many of the citizenry are not happy, they've been having problems with public demonstrations since November, and he's afraid of losing control.
    "Be not intimidated...nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency.
    These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice."
    ― John Adams
    "Success is not final, failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts."
    Winston Churchill

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by O2HeN2 View Post
    Just remember that Iran isn't the first country to shoot down a civilian aircraft:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

    O2
    https://www.ar-15.co/threads/176872-...=1#post2253147
    "Be not intimidated...nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency.
    These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice."
    ― John Adams
    "Success is not final, failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts."
    Winston Churchill

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by RblDiver View Post
    Well, that might explain why the guy was aiming where he was. Apparently Iran shot TWO missiles, and the first missed.
    https://twitter.com/AlArabiya/status...42201974755335
    The new theory is that they both hit. The first damaged the aircraft and knocked out the transponder. The aircraft was hit a second time and then turned to return to the airport but crashed 20 miles short of it.

    Ukraine Airliner Hit By a Second Missile Over Iran, New Video Shows
    Surveillance video from Iran circulating on social media Tuesday appears to show two missiles hitting the Ukrainian passenger jet downed over Tehran, fired approximately 30 seconds apart, providing new information about the tragedy that killed 176 people on the plane.

    The video was verified by Storyful, a social-media-intelligence company owned by News Corp, parent of Wall Street Journal publisher Dow Jones. It raises new questions about how forthcoming Iranian authorities were when, after three days of denial, they admitted they had mistakenly struck the Ukraine International Airlines flight without mentioning a second missile.

    It also possibly answers the question of why the Ukrainian airliner’s transponder stopped working before being hit by the missile that apparently brought the jet down last week.

    The blurry video shows what appears to be a missile launched from a site near the airport, and hitting an object in the sky, presumably the plane.

    About 30 seconds later, a second missile is fired, which hits the plane, this time a little closer to the airport. The jet stays in the air for several minutes and bursts into flames.

    The plane appears to circle back toward Tehran’s Imam Khomeini International Airport before crashing roughly 20 miles from it.

    A U.S. official identified the weapon used as a Russian-made SA-15 surface-to-air missile system, also known as the Gauntlet.

    While Canada and the U.K. said at the time that one missile was fired, U.S. officials told the Journal that the system fired two missiles.

    Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps on Saturday admitted it had mistakenly shot the plane down, something Western governments had claimed, taking full responsibility and promising accountability for the perpetrators and compensation for the victims.

    The three-day delay in that admission, which Ukrainian officials have said came only after they found evidence of the use of a missile forced Tehran’s hand, fueled anger and protests in the streets of Tehran and other Iranian cities against perceived incompetence and dishonesty by the Iranian leadership.

    The revelation that Iran’s military struck a civilian plane not once but twice will likely add fuel to that anger.

    Iranian authorities on Tuesday said they had arrested an undisclosed number of suspects in connection with the shooting, with President Hassan Rouhani urging the country’s judiciary to establish a special court to hold to account those responsible for the crash.

    “Anyone who should be punished will be punished,” Mr. Rouhani said in a televised speech Tuesday, his first public remarks since the plane was shot down. “The whole world will be watching our trial.”
    Last edited by Gman; 01-15-2020 at 08:37.
    "Be not intimidated...nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency.
    These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice."
    ― John Adams
    "Success is not final, failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts."
    Winston Churchill

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