Pepper Spray

[Zundfolge]

If you're going to carry the pepper spray against company policy so that you have something to protect yourself from an armed shoplifter, just carry a gun. Either one will get you fired if you get caught with it so might as well go with the more effective tool.

The only less-than-lethal tool that would be useful for forcing compliance (not just personal defense) would be a Taser ... which is also likely against company policy and I understand fraught with as many legal implications as a pistol if used.

Back in the early 80s my mom's cousin was working security for a David's store in Wichita (kind of like a TG&Y or Kmart) and was shot to death by a shoplifter he confronted in the parking lot. He was unarmed and was shot when he yelled at the guy to stop so neither a gun nor pepper spray would have helped, but had he been able to deploy it a gun would have worked a lot better I imagine.

[Irving]

That is terrible advise Zund.


Once I had a bottle of pepper spray in the car. It was laying on the shifter and when I started the car and moved the shifter into drive, it depressed the trigger and the transmission locked into drive, keeping the trigger down. It was like 2:30 in the morning and my wife and I were like, "what is that noise?" and proceeded to look down in between the seats, right into the ongoing blast. That was fun.

[Great-Kazoo]

That is terrible advise Zund.


Once I had a bottle of pepper spray in the car. It was laying on the shifter and when I started the car and moved the shifter into drive, it depressed the trigger and the transmission locked into drive, keeping the trigger down. It was like 2:30 in the morning and my wife and I were like, "what is that noise?" and proceeded to look down in between the seats, right into the ongoing blast. That was fun.

Why? if one is going to defend them self, why not use the most effective tool.
Regarding work, i say let the business eat the loss. We all have read stories how employee X used deadly force, or just displayed a weapon to stop X at work. The company remains in business, while said employee has been terminated.


That pesky Company Policy, as stated in the Company Handbook

[Irving]

For some reason, people just assume that killing people is no big deal and it's easy to live with afterward.

[Irving]

Looking for a less than lethal deterrent.

If you're going to carry the pepper spray against company policy so that you have something to protect yourself from an armed shoplifter, just carry a gun.

-Hey guys, I'm curious about ways to not kill people.

-Oh, just kill people.

Completely missed the point.

[longrange2]

Here is a great article on pepper spray.

https://www.activeresponsetraining.n...-how-to-use-it

[Squeeze]

Why? if one is going to defend them self, why not use the most effective tool.
Regarding work, i say let the business eat the loss. We all have read stories how employee X used deadly force, or just displayed a weapon to stop X at work. The company remains in business, while said employee has been terminated.


That pesky Company Policy, as stated in the Company Handbook

Why? Because there is such a thing as "force continuum". Some guy decides to fist fight you over stealing something, doesn't necessarily equate to "deadly force".

[Great-Kazoo]

Why? Because there is such a thing as "force continuum". Some guy decides to fist fight you over stealing something, doesn't necessarily equate to "deadly force".

A fist fight has never gone smooth, for either party. Throw in not everyone is of the same strength, physical capabilities etc. What may work for a healthy in shape person, may not work for one in a wheelchair.

SO while a fist fight may end quickly for scenario #1. scenario #2 has a different outcome.

Include the mindset of..... I was in fear for my life. Then let the attorneys handle it.

There is no cookie cutter, one size fits all way to handle any situation, where physical force is being used upon you.

You see it in a thread where there was a shooting, being discussed. . Everyone's an armchair QB.

[Zundfolge]

-Hey guys, I'm curious about ways to not kill people.

-Oh, just kill people.

Completely missed the point.

If the point is to protect his own life should his job put him in the position where he's facing an armed attacker, killing or not killing the bad guy is irrelevant. Stopping him is. A gun is much much more likely to stop an armed assailant than pepper spray (whether you kill them or not).

If the point is to use a weapon (gun or "less-than-lethal" option) to detain a shoplifting suspect ... well he should stop thinking about that at all unless he intends to become a sworn Law Enforcement officer first and not a humble "Loss Prevention Specialist".

He seemed to be asking about less-than-lethal options because he figured company policy and/or the law would go easier on him in the event he needed to defend his life, not for pacifistic reasons ... so I'd submit that the point missing isn't being done by me here.

Why? Because there is such a thing as "force continuum". Some guy decides to fist fight you over stealing something, doesn't necessarily equate to "deadly force".

More people die every year from fists than from rifles. Punch someone in the head and you might very well have crossed the "deadly force" threshold.

[Irving]

Where did he say anything about company policy?