What is the endgame for the all the nonsense going on?

[Trigger Time 23]

It feels like Jiu jitsu, or some equivalent, training should be a requirement for all officers. When you have the knowledge to safely restrain someone, there is less shit like just straight up choking to subdue.

I train Jiu Jitsu. There are a police at the academy I go to. They all agree more training would help, but Jiu Jitsu is significant time and $ commitment. It can also be very humbling (which some guys won't like). It would be great if more police did, but it needs to be required by the department and funded or I don't think it will happen. The little training they do get does not compare in quality/quantity to what we get. Hopefully this gets figured out.

[MrPrena]

It feels like Jiu jitsu, or some equivalent, training should be a requirement for all officers. When you have the knowledge to safely restrain someone, there is less shit like just straight up choking to subdue.

Depends on which dept.
Some do Koga, Akido/hapkido, judo, even ppct for restrain.
I know a guy who accidently broke a subject's wrist with basic simple ppct.

[Irving]

Depends on which dept.
Some do Koga, Akido/hapkido, judo, even ppct for restrain.
I know a guy who accidently broke a subject's wrist with basic simple ppct.

Yep, but that dude isn't dead.

[waffles]

Probably also should be looking at revising use of force/arrest requirements in addition to safer physical methods. I don't think society would crumble if NYPD gave Garner a ticket and moved on for selling loosies, once you go hands on shit will always have the potential to go truly bad, should at least make sure the reason for it is something worth the risk.

[Aloha_Shooter]

NYPD had given Garner tickets in the past. At some point, you have to take more action against repeat offenders than handing out tickets that they have shown they will ignore. The biggest problem (IMO) with that situation was NYC's draconian tax policies that made Garner's reselling of "loosies" a criminal offense.

At some point, enforcement officers will run into recalcitrant people and this invariably provides an opportunity for bad optics. Look at what happened to United with the whole Dr. Dao situation a couple years ago. If you really look at the video, the officers who came on the aircraft moved deliberately to lift him out of the seat when he refused to get out. Discussion about whether the airline should have deboarded him involuntarily is a whole other lengthy topic but it appeared to me like all of his injuries from that point forward were essentially self-inflicted as he went wild in resisting their lift. Nonetheless, United got a black eye and ended up paying him millions in compensation, CPD took a lot of criticism until they deflected to the Airport Police, etc.

Bottom line for any enforcement personnel is that they will always have to think about what they are doing being broadcast on MSNBC or ABC or some nutter channel on YouTube. It's similar to Patton's complaint at the end of WW2, being effective is no longer good enough.

[Gman]

It feels like Jiu jitsu, or some equivalent, training should be a requirement for all officers. When you have the knowledge to safely restrain someone, there is less shit like just straight up choking to subdue.

The thing is, he was already subdued. Get the hell off of him. Hogtie him and carry him to a car if you have to.

[hurley842002]

When I was looking into it (2014-15) with a couple of departments out here it was generally four year degree or military, plus of course laterals. At the time it skewed more towards military service though there were a bunch of people with degrees that I interacted with.

I'm actually more in favor of getting people that view it as a paycheck rather than a way of life, but it has to be a good paycheck. The Denver metro's average police salary is somewhere around $60k, which isn't too bad, though you're definitely going to be feeling the squeeze if you're single income with our current cost of living.

That's not the case everywhere, I know an Atlanta cop making $44k/yr, and we knew a family friend making 16/hr as a cop elsewhere in the southeast, and heard similar stories outside of the large cities. Those are just comically low, and you get what you pay for. To top it off, even the higher end mid-career salaries of Denver metro salaries aren't what you need to attract and retain top talent. Not everywhere is like this of course, and some state and a lot of federal agencies realize this and are paying accordingly. I've gotten to interact with a number of IRS Special Agents, for example, and they are well paid, sharp, and exceedingly professional, as you'd expect out of someone making a similar salary in the corporate world. Granted, those aren't patrol positions, but we should still expect that if we want the same qualities the rest of the job market wants like intelligence, attention to detail, integrity, patience, and people skills, we have to pay for them.

I forgot to include military as well, you are correct, that was also my experience. I certainly agree with your outlook on pay and the need to attract the right candidates. I think much of it starts with your resume, what have you done in the past that proves you are capable handling yourself when SHTF. Military is certainly a good indicator of worthiness. When I began pursuing LE back in 05 another great way to "get your foot in the door" was correctional experience, if you can keep your cool in that environment, it is a good indicator of performance elsewhere. Education really doesn't tell me a whole lot about you as it pertains to practical experience, and some of the best folks I've worked with, have either been Military, or have years of correctional experience. Not to downplay folks with Education, but I haven't seen a ton of excellent officers with education as their sole ticket to an LE career.

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[Irving]

I feel like work experience outside of government, and especially LE should be required. Officers need to have experienced life as an adult outside of the scope of the police. Way too easy to program people into us vs them mentality.

[Gman]

Dealing with the dregs of society on a dailly basis is certainly not an attractive and uplifting work experience. Especially in this day of dealing with 'frequent flyers' every day screwing things up for everybody else.

There are those that are attracted to police work and truly want to serve and help other people. They're doing it for the right reasons.

Then there are those that want power over other people, and they're in it for the wrong reasons.

I'm just grateful that the law enforcement career path didn't work out for me and I got into IT instead.

[hurley842002]

I feel like work experience outside of government, and especially LE should be required. Officers need to have experienced life as an adult outside of the scope of the police. Way too easy to program people into us vs them mentality.

I can't disagree with this, and ideally applicants would have a well rounded resume with a plethora of attributes (management/supervisor experience being a bonus). I started working in a prison at the age of 21, but I had also been working consistently since the age of 13 (paper route), with customer service experience, as well as hard labor jobs leading up to 21.

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