What is the endgame for the all the nonsense going on?

[Eric P]

The only resolution I can see coming out of this is not new laws, since we already have equal rights on the books.

Reparations is out of the question.

I see the call to the ending of Police Unions. These are a Blue shield that protect bad officers. Bad conduct by an officer should be grounds for immediate termination. Police unions have set up systems to make sure bad officers are kept on the force until something really bad happens. The officer that killed Floyd was a beneficiary of that system and allowed to remain on the force well past what should be allowed.

2nd, a public system to report officers for abuse and a community review board setup to review and issue any disciplinary actions including termination. Not Internal Affairs. These boards should be elected by the community and should have short single terms. 2 years? Reviews would also include any use of force resulting in injury or death. All reviews and board meeting open to the public, nothing behind closed doors.

3rd, Training, training, training.

[BPTactical]

[CS1983]

Training doesn't work; it's hit or miss and there's no standard. We see the same thing in the military with pet projects like EO, Sexual Harrassment, etc. Powerpoint is simply not a replacement for not hiring f**king mongloid retards with power tripping personality tendencies.

Body cams don't actually work, either. This is counter-intuitive, but the research backs it up. Similar to red light cameras (though those tend to increase accidents, rather than prevent them).

Police unions ARE a problem (just like teacher's unions, and well, most unions). I don't think this needs much explanation.

What works is the demilitarization of the police, DOJ investigations, and restrictive use of force policies.

Here's a twitter thread with backing data:

https://twitter.com/samswey/status/1180655701271732224

[waffles]

A civilian review board with teeth and independence is a no-brainer, beyond that I think you need to take steps to make being a cop an attractive job. Inherent in the job are shitty hours, potential danger, and exposure to conflict on a prolonged basis. To top this off, you have low pay (generally, there are some exceptions) and the main benefit, a pension, is becoming a much harder thing to find. With all that, to say nothing of the current climate of distrust of cops due to continued videotaped atrocities and fuck-ups, the people you'd want as cops aren't applying in the numbers you'd want. Instead, you're getting a lot more people who don't have skills/qualities/education that would let them earn more than they could as a cop, people who want a turn-key lifestyle (these are the guys with the thin blue line sticker on everything, oakleys constantly on, who just can't talk about anything unrelated to being a cop), and yes, the stereotypical blue punisher skull powertripper that is too common.

I think you'd have to increase pay significantly, do things like more common rotations on/off of night shifts (for sleep reasons I think you'd have to still do a few months on/off at a time) so people can both maintain their friendships/relationships with people outside of the public safety shift work groups and so that they could get a more holistic view of the community they're working in, and maybe even little things like discouraging military/tactical sunglasses, haircuts, watches, whatever to help avoid people creating the "us" in the us vs them mentality in the first place.

Beyond that, as I briefly mentioned, I think you'd absolutely need a powerful civilian review board on the federal level. I've heard an idea tossed around that in addition to use of force investigations, all police officers would have to obtain their credentials through this organization, and would be subject to revocation of the credentials by this federal body to avoid state and local authorities ignoring problem officers or sweeping complains under the rug.

[Zundfolge]

The goal is to cause chaos in an election year when the incumbent President is a Republican.

This is about undermining Republican politicians and replacing them with Democrats, that's really all it is.

[.455_Hunter]

The goal is to cause chaos in an election year when the incumbent President is a Republican.

This is about undermining Republican politicians and replacing them with Democrats, that's really all it is.

+1000

Can you imagine the media narrative if hostile crowds were similarly laying siege to an Obama White House?

[hurley842002]

A civilian review board with teeth and independence is a no-brainer, beyond that I think you need to take steps to make being a cop an attractive job. Inherent in the job are shitty hours, potential danger, and exposure to conflict on a prolonged basis. To top this off, you have low pay (generally, there are some exceptions) and the main benefit, a pension, is becoming a much harder thing to find. With all that, to say nothing of the current climate of distrust of cops due to continued videotaped atrocities and fuck-ups, the people you'd want as cops aren't applying in the numbers you'd want. Instead, you're getting a lot more people who don't have skills/qualities/education that would let them earn more than they could as a cop, people who want a turn-key lifestyle (these are the guys with the thin blue line sticker on everything, oakleys constantly on, who just can't talk about anything unrelated to being a cop), and yes, the stereotypical blue punisher skull powertripper that is too common.

I think you'd have to increase pay significantly, do things like more common rotations on/off of night shifts (for sleep reasons I think you'd have to still do a few months on/off at a time) so people can both maintain their friendships/relationships with people outside of the public safety shift work groups and so that they could get a more holistic view of the community they're working in, and maybe even little things like discouraging military/tactical sunglasses, haircuts, watches, whatever to help avoid people creating the "us" in the us vs them mentality in the first place.

Beyond that, as I briefly mentioned, I think you'd absolutely need a powerful civilian review board on the federal level. I've heard an idea tossed around that in addition to use of force investigations, all police officers would have to obtain their credentials through this organization, and would be subject to revocation of the credentials by this federal body to avoid state and local authorities ignoring problem officers or sweeping complains under the rug.

I agree with most of your post, except the part about hiring people who don't have "education", circa 2013/2014 that is ALL most of the Denver metro PD/SD would hire, you either had to have education (didn't even have to be relevant), or you had to be a lateral. This attracted all sorts of unqualified individuals with no clue what they were doing, all they saw was a good paycheck, they didn't have real world skills, and IMO is what has led to all the skittish, trigger happy individuals we see to this day. Again, this is just my opinion and my experience in the past.

As to the Oakley/thin blue line thing, you will be hard pressed to find anyone in the LE community that doesn't wear Oakleys, and many of them have thin blue line stickers/apparel, they are proud of what they do, it's no different than [insert military branch here], stickers, shirts, license plates, etc.

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[Aloha_Shooter]

Whose endgame? Endgame for the Left is to energize their base for the November elections, just as they did after Officer Wilson defended himself against Michael Brown. I'm sure they were hoping something would pop up this summer so they weren't as transparent with the timing of "protest" movements as they were with the Occupy Wall Street muck. In this case, they lucked out by having an incident they don't need to lie about the way they did with Brown.

Endgame for the nation? I have no idea except that it won't be good in the long run.

[Irving]

It feels like Jiu jitsu, or some equivalent, training should be a requirement for all officers. When you have the knowledge to safely restrain someone, there is less shit like just straight up choking to subdue.

[waffles]

I agree with most of your post, except the part about hiring people who don't have "education", circa 2013/2014 that is ALL most of the Denver metro PD/SD would hire, you either had to have education (didn't even have to be relevant), or you had to be a lateral. This attracted all sorts of unqualified individuals with no clue what they were doing, all they saw was a good paycheck, they didn't have real world skills, and IMO is what has led to all the skittish, trigger happy individuals we see to this day. Again, this is just my opinion and my experience in the past.

As to the Oakley/thin blue line thing, you will be hard pressed to find anyone in the LE community that doesn't wear Oakleys, and many of them have thin blue line stickers/apparel, they are proud of what they do, it's no different than [insert military branch here], stickers, shirts, license plates, etc.

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When I was looking into it (2014-15) with a couple of departments out here it was generally four year degree or military, plus of course laterals. At the time it skewed more towards military service though there were a bunch of people with degrees that I interacted with.

I'm actually more in favor of getting people that view it as a paycheck rather than a way of life, but it has to be a good paycheck. The Denver metro's average police salary is somewhere around $60k, which isn't too bad, though you're definitely going to be feeling the squeeze if you're single income with our current cost of living.

That's not the case everywhere, I know an Atlanta cop making $44k/yr, and we knew a family friend making 16/hr as a cop elsewhere in the southeast, and heard similar stories outside of the large cities. Those are just comically low, and you get what you pay for. To top it off, even the higher end mid-career salaries of Denver metro salaries aren't what you need to attract and retain top talent. Not everywhere is like this of course, and some state and a lot of federal agencies realize this and are paying accordingly. I've gotten to interact with a number of IRS Special Agents, for example, and they are well paid, sharp, and exceedingly professional, as you'd expect out of someone making a similar salary in the corporate world. Granted, those aren't patrol positions, but we should still expect that if we want the same qualities the rest of the job market wants like intelligence, attention to detail, integrity, patience, and people skills, we have to pay for them.