Don't know what to think - Polymer80 raided by ATF

[Grant H.]

I'm sure this has nothing to do with it...

https://americanactionnews.com/guns/...-with-the-atf/

For the clicky-clicky averse, it's an article talking about Biden/Team talking with the ATF...

[BushMasterBoy]

I'm sure the taxes are payroll, FICA,Corporate etc.
The computer will flag the company, then the investigation will begin.

The Florida Keys are nice this time of year, so is Hawaii!

[WETWRKS]

Here's the latest update, from one of their distributors.

On December 10, 2020, ATF agents entered Polymer 80's warehouse in Nevada. They were seeking out their Polymer 80 BBS branded kits. At the time of this email, we are unaware of any kits being seized and JSD Supply has not been contacted in anyway by ATF. ATF is trying to re-classify an 80% receiver as a firearm because of the other parts it is being sold with. We at JSD Supply have taken the precaution of removing the finishing jig from our Polymer 80 Full Build Kits. If you purchase a full build kit and still require a jig, that will need to be added on as a separate item. We will do everything we can to keep you updated with any news we may hear. Please understand that we may have to make changes to our products on the fly and appreciate everything you do to support us and the industry.

Here is my suspicion...if you sell a 80% kit it is an 80% kit...but if you add other completed parts to that same kit.......it changes the percentage of how much of the kit is completed. So an 80% lower has 80% completed but if you add a completed upper as part of the kit then 92% of the kit is now completed...

In other words the ATF is going to play semantics with this.

[Wulf202]

Are there separate taxes on guns vs non-firearm parts?

If they erroneously consider these guns and not mere parts, then not paying gun taxes on not-guns-but-guns would make "sense".

Yes. There's a big add gun tax. So the tax charge was just a freebie of they prove they were making guns

[CS1983]

Here is my suspicion...if you sell a 80% kit it is an 80% kit...but if you add other completed parts to that same kit.......it changes the percentage of how much of the kit is completed. So an 80% lower has 80% completed but if you add a completed upper as part of the kit then 92% of the kit is now completed...

In other words the ATF is going to play semantics with this.

But that's not how a firearm is legally defined per federal law, and exactly the opposite of how the ATF determines if something is 80%.

[Martinjmpr]

Here is my suspicion...if you sell a 80% kit it is an 80% kit...but if you add other completed parts to that same kit.......it changes the percentage of how much of the kit is completed. So an 80% lower has 80% completed but if you add a completed upper as part of the kit then 92% of the kit is now completed...

In other words the ATF is going to play semantics with this.

I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. The 80% refers to the lower receiver, nothing else.

It doesn't matter what else you include, the only part that is considered a "firearm" under applicable Federal laws is the lower so whether you include an upper, stock, etc is irrelevant.

My guess is that Polymer is selling "80% receivers" PLUS all the parts to finish that 80% into a finished receiver (jigs, drill bits, templates, etc.) THAT is what makes it a firearm in the eyes of the ATF.

Is it weak? Maybe, maybe not but agency "interpretations" are given wide latitude by courts.

[Rucker61]

"failing to pay taxes"

If they are selling gun parts, then there is no excise tax under Section 4181 of the Internal Revenue Code. They feel they are selling gun parts, so they don't pay the excise tax. However, if the government feels that they are selling firearms, then under 4181 they owe excise tax, which hasn't been paid.

[WETWRKS]

I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. The 80% refers to the lower receiver, nothing else.

It doesn't matter what else you include, the only part that is considered a "firearm" under applicable Federal laws is the lower so whether you include an upper, stock, etc is irrelevant.

My guess is that Polymer is selling "80% receivers" PLUS all the parts to finish that 80% into a finished receiver (jigs, drill bits, templates, etc.) THAT is what makes it a firearm in the eyes of the ATF.

Is it weak? Maybe, maybe not but agency "interpretations" are given wide latitude by courts.

I understand that is not how it works...but do you think that will stop the ATF from playing those games?

[CS1983]

I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. The 80% refers to the lower receiver, nothing else.

It doesn't matter what else you include, the only part that is considered a "firearm" under applicable Federal laws is the lower so whether you include an upper, stock, etc is irrelevant.

My guess is that Polymer is selling "80% receivers" PLUS all the parts to finish that 80% into a finished receiver (jigs, drill bits, templates, etc.) THAT is what makes it a firearm in the eyes of the ATF.

Is it weak? Maybe, maybe not but agency "interpretations" are given wide latitude by courts.

It’s soy only diet levels of weak. It’s simply not a firearm. And no amount of tutorials, equipment, etc. make it so.

[eddiememphis]

As always, there is more to the story.

https://carsonnow.org/story/12/11/20...among-other-fe

Highlights-

"According to a press release issued by District of Columbia Attorney General Karl A. Racine in June of 2020, a lawsuit was filed against Polymer80 for selling what are described as ?ghost guns.?

?Indeed, Polymer80?s guns have been used in several homicides in the District."

"The District of Columbia Office of the Attorney General alleged in their lawsuit that Polymer80 violated multiple aspects of the Consumer Protection Procedures Act..." including false claims and violating several DC laws.

Sounds like a poorly run business in several aspects.