Ballistics and mainstream production

[Mista Bukit]

[quote=SA Friday;146192]As Sturtle said,

You do save money reloading. With that said, it really depends on the amount you reload/shoot as to when the reloading starts paying for itself. For example, an average USPSA pistol competition shooter (20k to 30k rounds in a year) can essentially pay off their Dillon 550b reloader and accessories from the savings in ammo cost in 6 months. Someone who shoots maybe a 1000 rounds a year may have to reload for a couple of years before they see it pay for itself. Reloading, from a financial perspective, is an investiment into future savings. The savings is dependent on the shooters ammo consumption.


When you are talking about an investment, don't forget the return on your equipment if you sell it. For instance, I just bought a Ruger LCP in .380. So now to load this new caliber and since I have a Dillon 550, it costed me around $90 for the dies and the conversion kit. $90 buys about 100 rounds of training ammo and components to reload cost between $.15 - $.20 a round. Since I can sell the dies and conversion kit on E-Bay for most of what I paid for them the only real cost is for the components.

[BigBear]

Hmm.. I may need to look into this more thouroughly. Another thought crept into my mind this morning.

Earlier, we said that 24inches is a bit long for a .308 barell. I plan on putting a can so that will add another 5-7 inches. Would it be prudent to chop the barell, rethread, recrown, etc down to something like 18 inch or so? If so, will that have an effect on the rifle when ran without the can? Lots of thoughts..

[Irving]

No, there is no friction inside the can. In fact, if I remember correctly, suppressors can help you gain a few fps, instead of losing it. I don't know any more detailed info though.

[SA Friday]

Some might recommend it, but it far from necessary. The bullet is not going to make contact with anything in the suppressor if everything works right. It's simply going to capture and control the release of the escaping gasses as the bullet leaves the barrel.

The biggest gain in cutting the barrel down would be manuverability of the firearm with the can on it. 4 inches of length can make a difference on just how easy it is to manuver around. Once again, as long as you are getting an accurate load through it, it's really not a big deal unless you plan on going through some training courses or competitions with it where being able to manuver it around would be beneficial.

[BigBear]

ok, I didn't ask correctly... Let me try to clarify. I understand there is no contact between bullet and suppresor. What I am asking is:

1. With a shorter barell, will I lose accuracy.
2. With can on and off, with a shorter barell will there be a more distinguished POI?
3. If the barell is long, made even longer with a can, then don't I run the risk of loads not exiting the barell?...

Thxs.

[Irving]

ok, I didn't ask correctly... Let me try to clarify. I understand there is no contact between bullet and suppresor. What I am asking is:

1. With a shorter barell, will I lose accuracy.
2. With can on and off, with a shorter barell will there be a more distinguished POI?
3. If the barell is long, made even longer with a can, then don't I run the risk of loads not exiting the barell?...

Thxs.

As for #3, no, because the contact with the bullet ends when the barrel ends. If the round will exit a barrel at all, then the presence of a can shouldn't change anything.

#2, the presence of a suppressor can change POI, but I'm under the impression that barrel length won't effect this in a significant way, since you will just adjust to whatever POI you end up with anyway.

#1, I don't think this has any relation to having a can or not.

[BigBear]

Correct Sturte, #1 has no bearing on use of a can. I am asking with a shorter barell at the given twist rate, will that reduce accuracy? Or does twist rate even play a role in length?... Arg, I'm confusing myself. I just need a book, a few thousand rounds, and practice.

[Irving]

That's a question for SA, I have no idea on that one.

[SA Friday]

ok, I didn't ask correctly... Let me try to clarify. I understand there is no contact between bullet and suppresor. What I am asking is:

1. With a shorter barell, will I lose accuracy.
2. With can on and off, with a shorter barell will there be a more distinguished POI?
3. If the barell is long, made even longer with a can, then don't I run the risk of loads not exiting the barell?...

Thxs.

1. Cutting your current barrel shorter will change the harmonics of the barrel. It's impossible to tell if this will affect the accuracy, but more than likely it will affect how it shoots ammo in comparison to it's current length.

2. The POI while using a suppressor will more than likely be a different location than when shooting without it. Almost everyone I've known to shoot a high powered rifle says this. They also say that the POI with and without the suppressor are repeatable and usually equal in accuracy. Sometimes, the suppressor actually tightens up the group. This is one of those, 'gotta test it' things.

3. No way. Even if your powder is burning out before it reaches the end of the barrel, you are only losing a LITTLE bit of velocity; i.e. 2850 fps instead of 2950 fps. Like I was saying, it only matters on 'way the hell out there' shots, and if you find a slower powder that shoots accurately in a reload for the gun, the extra barrel could actually result in faster velocities. Don't get wrapped up into your barrel length. I mentioned this in passing, it's gee-wiz info. Optimum barrel length is nothing to get wrapped up in.

At the very experienced levels of shooting, guys optimize every little aspect of their rifles to squeeze any and every tiny little advantage out of the gun. The results are amazing... and very expensive. I've seen and shot rifles like this, and I'll tell you for free that they are amazing and as addicting as crack cocaine. High end stocks like McMillian and HS and AI; custom built actions and bolts hand fit to the stock, stock bedding jobs so perfect you can't believe someone can do it; barrels custom made with brand new rifling reamers and chamber reamers so there isn't any wear on the reamers when the barrel is cut; $3k+ scopes on custom mounts built into the action instead of being screwed on to it; 6 to 12 oz triggers; etc etc. Crack Cocaine...

Shoot what you have. Learn the important stuff, trigger press, sight calculations, doping the wind, reloading for the gun. Then go for the crack pipe.

[Hoser]

1. With a shorter barell, will I lose accuracy.
2. With can on and off, with a shorter barell will there be a more distinguished POI?
3. If the barell is long, made even longer with a can, then don't I run the risk of loads not exiting the barell?...

1. 99% of the time, no. A good bore and crown are key.
2. A short barrel is normally a little stiffer and you wont get as much "barrel droop" from a can.
3. Nope, not even with subsonic loads. Unless you find a 15-20 foot long barrel, then all bets are off.