Gun Sales Up, and Up, and Up

[Martinjmpr]

Those people just can't see the big picture. The end game has always been zero firearms for anyone other than the military and maybe law enforcement. The Fudds of the world have always been ignorant of this with their mentality that since they don't own or need certain types of firearms then who cares what laws they pass.

I think you're making a mistake of assuming that "the other side", i.e. the pro-gun control people, are a monolithic, single-minded organism with a single goal while "our side", i.e gun owners, are riven with factions who want different things and are willing to give up "this" in order to keep "that."

The reality is that there are just as many different factions on the anti-gun side as there are on the pro-gun side. There are absolutely those who would love to ban all guns in private hands. They are actually a minority though. There are a lot of people who support various gun control measures who are not hostile to guns and who are, in fact, gun owners themselves (I have several in my family.)

Lumping them all together as a bunch of gun-confiscating commies might be effective when you're "preaching to the choir" but it's not a very effective way to debate public policy.

Well ain't bubba going to surprised one day when grandpappy's old deer rifle turns out to be a deadly sniper rifle and his favorite duck hunting shotgun is deemed a destructive device and his trusty 357 wheel gun is outlawed with every other handgun because they can be too easily concealed. Guess he'll be buying his meat at the grocery store and looking for some new hobbies.

I doubt that could happen in the lifetime of anybody on this board. Those who point to England or Australia as cautionary examples are missing the most important point: By the time draconian restrictions were enacted in those countries, total gun ownership amounted to a very small fraction of the population.

It doesn't help that in England, in particular, hunting and gun ownership have always been upper-class practices and gun ownership amongst working class people has always been very low. By contrast, gun ownership and hunting have been popular in the lower economic classes in America since it was founded, primarily because of our frontier heritage. The yeoman farmer on the great plains NEEDED a shotgun and likely a rifle to provide food for the family and to protect against wild animals, bandits and Indians.

By contrast, in England the only one who "NEEDED" a gun was Sir Rodney Riche-Pigge, ESQ, Lord of the Estate and Duke of the Manor, to go hunting on the weekends while the proles toiled in the coal mines making him rich.

Even in wide-open Australia, private gun ownership was very low percentage wise (I think it was less than 10%, not sure the exact figures) and most of that was concentrated in the sparsely populated Outback regions.

By the time you get to that point, it doesn't really matter whether gun owners organize or lobby or whatever. Their power to affect elections is so small that from a political standpoint it makes them irrelevant which is why they get steamrolled.

That is not true of the US where gun owners and pro-gun households (which I would define as those who tend to vote pro-gun whether they personally own firearms or not) are a significant percentage of the population. I've heard estimates of 25% of households own guns and I wouldn't be surprised if it was much higher in some states.

Furthermore, our Federal system gives disproportionate voting power to low-population rural states where gun ownership tends to remain popular (the example being that Wyoming with 600,000 people has the same representation in the Senate as California with 30 million.) Since we have more low-population rural states than "urban" states, that again tilts the equation in favor of low population states.

There's another aspect of low-population states that also needs to be taken into consideration: In a low population state, the difference between a senate or gubernatorial candidate or even a representative winning or losing can be very small - in the low thousands or even hundreds. That means that candidates in those states need to tread carefully when it comes to sensitive issues like guns because it doesn't take much of a "groundswell" to boot them from office.

There have been various surveys showing the average age of hunters has been steadily climbing since the 1960's. Not nearly as many hunting licenses are being sold as there were back then either. The overall trend seems to be going away from sport hunting for a majority of the population.

Consider that as recently as the 1950's, a standard SitCom staple story would be "the guys go on a hunting trip" - showing you how "mainstream" hunting was back then.

Assuming that trend remains, we may well see the sport of hunting largely disappear (or become a very esoteric practice by a few die-hard hunters, like in parts of Europe.) When we get to that point, firearms ownership may drop to a low enough point that we may well see a push to largely outlaw guns nationwide but, again, I think it will take us at least 100 years to get to that point.

And a lot can happen in 100 years.

[RblDiver]

I know next week I'm taking my girlfriend to get her first gun (though I guess she's not as interested in CCW as much as open-carry; her rationale from what I understand is she wants it as a deterrent, I'm not exactly sure how to respond). I'm thinking I'll pick something up myself too; I have a pistol but it's not exactly sized for CCW so might get something smaller, and/or might just get a small 22 for plinking (and to train the daughter when she gets a bit older).

(On a side note, I'm proud of the girl; she'll be starting kindergarten in the fall, and as such is trying to learn lots of things. One thing she asked me to teach her last night are the parts of guns. I'm simultaneously proud and scared, as I should probably study up to teach her tonight! lol) (Oh, and she wants me to teach her how to fish come summertime!)

[MrPrena]

If 60% of those who are NEW gun owners vote for republican in tight swing states, it will make some difference this upcoming mid term.

[exxonv]

All great and well thought out points! I tend to agree with hunting declining and the association to gun ownership, but I wonder how much conceal carry is helping hold that population up. I too have family who own firearms and yet who feel that the government should push for things like universal background checks, bans on some weapons, and capacity, etc. I point out to them that these "laws" are only in-place to impact legal gun owners, that they are in fact pissing away their rights and mine for the sake of an illusion of safety, and that the 2nd isn't' about safety, it's about tyranny, with safety being a nice addition. It makes them think (when they own guns). But there are those who would rather let other people solve their problems for them, and unfortunately, those people can be quite loud and whiny..

[MrPrena]

Fudds are worse.

[exxonv]

Fudds are worse.

Agreed - when they start out "I believe in the 2nd amendment, I have a hunting rifle and that's all you'd ever need", I laugh and tell them the same could be said for a V8 vs. a bike... They usually have to think about that for a bit (longer than they should) before they come up with some other excuse, or give that knowing smile that says to me that they're brainwashed and ignorant.

[eddiememphis]

I know next week I'm taking my girlfriend to get her first gun ...(On a side note, I'm proud of the girl; she'll be starting kindergarten in the fall...

Wow, Diver. You like 'em young!

[funkymonkey1111]

(though I guess she's not as interested in CCW as much as open-carry; her rationale from what I understand is she wants it as a deterrent, I'm not exactly sure how to respond).

you respond by telling her it's idiotic

[exxonv]

I know next week I'm taking my girlfriend to get her first gun (though I guess she's not as interested in CCW as much as open-carry; her rationale from what I understand is she wants it as a deterrent, I'm not exactly sure how to respond).

If you want to keep her as your girlfriend, you meet her where she is, and you listen and try to make your points, gently. Over time, if she trusts you, she'll change her thoughts. I've seen it work, made it work w/my wife, and it's the best path IMO.