Kabul madhouse

[JTP80]

Well, in 2 years or less Chinese mining operations will be underway for the vast mineral deposits there, worth an estimates $2-3 trillion. They'll be using local labor, including children, at near slave wages. If not just outright rented slaves from the Taliban gov. Other reasons why we were sticking around is the problem that Pakistan has nukes, Taliban and AQ in their gov and a hatred of the US and our allies, especially India. Poppy fields will be kicked into high gear to produce even more heroin for global black markets. Not to mention it isn't a bad spot for listening posts to pick up comms and intel between Russia and China.

[Gman]

I expect the US to repeatedly be attacked in the name of Allah.

It is the way of Islam. It has been that way since the beginning of history. We refuse to learn from history and waste blood and treasure trying to "reimagine" our way around reality.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Folks can legitimately argue about the validity of 20 years of mission operations, but recent history indicated a reasonable stability point, with ~10,000 US troops sequestered in a few secure locations. They were able to strike hot spots as needed, and were succeeding in keeping the lid on things without excessive casualties. All that has now been lost due a run away mentality.

This. The purpose of staying was to give the Afghans time to build stability. The Democrats have tried to make every battle, every war, into Viet Nam because their opposition in Viet Nam won them political power. South Korea has become an economic powerhouse because we stayed and gave them time to build a stable democracy. The North Vietnamese were on the verge of losing completely when we cut our losses and left South Viet Nam. How much had you heard about the Taliban during the Trump administration (and he wanted to leave too -- he just wanted to do it in a way that didn't energize the Taliban)?

The Bush administration thought of the GWOT as World War II; it wasn't but I think Bush genuinely thought of it in those terms -- one of the reasons he has made a point to quietly support combat veterans after he left office. He did take political advantage of the situation but I think he sincerely believed 9/11 was a Pearl Harbor moment and sincerely wanted to go after the forces that sponsored and executed it like the Allies went after the Axis. In both Viet Nam and Afghanistan, we should have thought very carefully before getting involved and escalating our presence but in both cases, the military and political endeavors were undermined by the Left and tools of Communism who want nothing more than to bring America down taking advantage of middle America's displeasure at seeing the casualties grow.

[BPTactical]

Everybody relax, I am sure the TB is lining up Bring your Daughter the Work Day, Pride Month, Christmas parades and Memorial Day celebrations as we speak.

[Martinjmpr]

I posted this on the Veterans' blog I comment on a lot, This Ain't Hell, but it seems appropriate here:

Another Afghan vet here (OEF II, 2003.)

I honestly don't feel as bad about this as many of you appear to. OEF was never about "saving" Afghanistan in the way that the Vietnam war was about "saving South Vietnam.

As I've said before, it seems to me like we achieved everything that military power could achieve by 2004 or so. The Taliban was smashed in the big cities, infrastructure being rebuilt, the terrorists in their camps were pretty much gone and the ones who were left spent more time moving from place to place and worrying about whether they would get a hellfire missile up their ass from a passing drone than they did planning terror attacks.

That's the point at which we should have told the Afghanis "OK, it's your country now" and pulled most of our combat troops out.

Unfortunately, that old bugaboo, "Mission creep" took over and pretty soon our mission was to "build a stable nation" - something that Afghanistan hasn't been for decades.

It's also something that guns and bombs can't really do.

When are military planners going to realize that the whole world is not Western Europe and "The Marshall Plan" will not work on 3rd world tribal bands? The Marshall Plan worked in Europe because Europe was a stable, functioning civilized society BEFORE WWII and the Europeans WANTED a stable and civilized society.

Afghanistan has never really been a stable or civilized nation - it's always been a collection of isolated tribes under the influence of this or that local strongman.

Yes, Afghanistan has had "functional" national governments before, but those governments "functioned" because the bureaucrats in Kabul were smart enough to let the local warlords do their thing, as long as they paid their taxes.

Afghanistan is never going to be Germany or Belgium, at least not in the lifetime of anybody on planet earth today.

I regret the blood and treasure that's been lost trying to turn Afghanistan into a modern nation - that was a fool's errand.

But I don't regret serving there and I don't think our initial invasion/occupation was unnecessary.

When all is said and done, Afghanistan belongs to the Afghanis and will be whatever THEY want it to be. If they want it to be a tribal shithole run by radicals, fighting among themselves endlessly, then that's what it will be and short of a permanent occupation, there's no way of preventing that.

Whatever Afghanistan becomes, it's not worth the life of one American soldier to go back and fix.

EDITED TO ADD: Just for fun, a picture of me on TV Hill in the middle of Kabul, taken in March 2003 (literally the day the Iraq war started):

[00tec]

Some people tried to mount this C17 leaving Kabul like it was a slow moving train. Didn't really pan out.

https://twitter.com/AsvakaNews/statu...706379266?s=20

[Irving]

Jesus

[Delfuego]

Thanks Martinjmpr. I truly appreciate the perspective from someone that was personally involved.

[Justin]

Waitasecond...

How did the Taliban get ahold of F-15s and nukes?

[Hummer]

Thanks Martinjmpr. I truly appreciate the perspective from someone that was personally involved.

Yes, thanks Martinjmpr. I wonder how much different Kabul looks now after $6 trillion.