Alec Baldwin Shoots two, Kills One

[hollohas]

The weird part is the two shot were not other actors. They were crew. So he wasn't filming a scene that required the firing of a prop gun pointed at another actor. He was pointing a gun at people he shouldn't have been pointing it at, presumably off camera.

[O2HeN2]

The weird part is the two shot were not other actors. They were crew. So he wasn't filming a scene that required the firing of a prop gun pointed at another actor. He was pointing a gun at people he shouldn't have been pointing it at, presumably off camera.

Conjecture is that it was a shot being filmed with the firearm pointed at the camera - behind which the two people hit would be positioned.

O2

[hollohas]

Conjecture is that it was a shot being filmed with the firearm pointed at the camera - behind which the two people hit would be positioned.

O2

Ah. That makes sense.

[.455_Hunter]

Unknown atm. HOWEVER trolling the daily yeast. It's not surprising, since it's one of their own. How many are saying "we need to wait, to know what really happened" While i'm explaining and asking, why wait? If it was someone other than their own. Would you not be calling for the harshest sentence, as well as DOING SOMETHING ABOUT GUN VIOLENCE?

Instead you're all saying, if only we wait for the real story.

The hypocrisy is so blatant it's pathetic.

To whom is this response directed? I am not quite following your discussion.

[eddiememphis]

Good thing this wasn't a remake of The Deer Hunter

I have already read about calls from within "the industry" that all guns should be banned from movie sets.

I am certain Baldwin will blame someone else, proving yet again what vapid dolts actors are.

[.455_Hunter]

I have already read about calls from within "the industry" that all guns should be banned from movie sets.

Yes- Make every action movie use starter and blank-only pistols like this documentary on the 1986 Miami FBI Shootout...

https://youtu.be/n5UVkNhqi_k

Wouldn't that be fun!

[Ah Pook]

He will still use it as fodder for his anti-gun nonsense. He will say how dangerous even fake guns are and no one should have one, blah blah.

I’d like to see it as an anti-Baldwin initiative.

[00tec]

This didn't age well

https://mobile.twitter.com/AlecBaldw...25278123048960

[Aloha_Shooter]

The propmaster surely deserves some blame for this, just as in the Brandon Lee incident, but shouldn't someone who has FREQUENTLY been in films using prop firearms take the responsibility to learn how to verify the firearm is safe when receiving it from props? If nothing else, he doesn't want the prop blowing up in his own hands from a blocked barrel. Maybe I'm just crotchety about safety having taught Boy Scouts and been an RSO ...

If Hollywood is serious about their anti-gun message then the solution is simple: quit making action movies or any media that involves firearms. Guaranteed to turn out like Kelly Sue Deconnick telling comic book fans to stop buying her book if they don't like the politics she interjects in her writing. They did stop, her titles have tanked. Marvel and DC comics are so garbage now that many comic book shops have turned to selling only/mainly back issues to the collectors' market or simply folded.

[ChadAmberg]

This is from a buddy of mine Chris Byrne. Long read but it talks about how firearms are to be handled on the set:


Sometimes, union rules are actually a good thing, and even a CRITICAL thing...
At least TWO people... OTHER THAN ALEC BALDWIN... Two people who had had an absolute professional and legal responsibility to do so... negligently failed to follow SEVERAL union and guild mandated cast and crew safety, and propmaster/firearms masters safety rules...
..they've been around since Hexum for damn good reason, and if you follow them they work...
....And a woman's life was violently ended as a result...
Never mind the injuries to bystanders, the damage to the families of the people involved...
...and it must be said, not the least of which is the serious emotional and spiritual damage done to Baldwin himself; having... however unwitting and without intent or malice... ended this woman's life, by his own hand. He has to deal with that, and live with that, for the rest of his life.
Don't dismiss that just because Baldwin is... Baldwin... and all the baggage that does along with him. Nobody deserves anything remotely like what happened here, to happen to them...
Also, don't fall into the trap of blaming Baldwin... even if you think he "deserved" it... Or even if like most in American firearms and shooting culture, every rule and instinct you've internalized over your entire lifetime of shooting says "the person in control of the firearm is always responsible for everything that happens with that firearm. And for making sure they don't shoot someone or something they didn't intend to shoot".
Simply put, that's not... and couldn't possibly be... how firearms safety in film and theatrical productions works. Baldwin is simply and absolutely NOT even partially responsible for this, unless he somehow deliberately circumvented firearms safety protocols AND prevented at least two other people whose ENTIRE JOB is making sure the rules get followed, from following those rules as well.
Film and theatrical production firearms safety protocols are designed specifically such that before the firearm is ever put into the actors hand (or even placed in an unsecured location on the set where someone... in the scene or not... even MIGHT pick it up) TWO OTHER PEOPLE are clearly and explicitly responsible for the firearm and ammunition not being in a condition (and the people around the actor and the firearm NOT be in a position or condition) such that once the firearm is put in the actors hand or even anywhere insecure on the set; anything the actor, or anyone else present, MIGHT foreseeable do in the course of the scene (intentionally or accidentally), or with the firearm, could under any reasonably foreseeable consideration or circumstance, have anything more than a remote chance of serious injury occurring.
Yes, of course,, the four rules... All firearms are always loaded at all times, Never point a firearm at anything you don't intend to harm kill or destroy, always be sure of your target and what's around and beyond it, always keep your finger off the trigger until and unless you are prepared to fire...
Except NOT...
Actually think for a minute, don't just react by rote and reflex with dogma...
The four rules could not possibly work for film production.
That is literally the entire point of film production firearm safety protocols. Two competent responsible authorities are specifically and explicitly required to ensure that any reasonably foreseeable action taken in the scene with the firearm, will not result in any reasonably foreseeable CHANCE of serious harm happening.
That may mean that they use a simulated firearm with a plugged or restricted barrel and a propane or butane spark popper be used to simulate the firing... or that they use a nonfunctional replica and cgi the shots in post production.
That may mean using a fully functional firearm, but using a different kind of theatrical simulant ammunition that can make a loud bang and flash but not propel even hot gasses and powder residue with enough energy to cause serious harm... In which case it is also those same two peoples responsibility that there is NEVER ANY LIVE AMMO ON THE SET, at the same time as a fully functional firearm is also on the set.
It may mean setting up trickery with camera angles and blocking of the actors, and setting up a clear protective barrier in between the firearm and any potentially harmed persons.
The point being that there are always multiple options that allow the production to get the shots they need, while still minimizing any risk of harm..... and there are always TWO people responsible for making sure it gets done in the way that does minimize that risk, and does NOT get done in a manner that presents any more risk than necessary.
...And none of those people are the actors in the scene... they can't be... their job is to act out the scene.
Under these mandatory safety protocols, at least TWO of the following people: the propmaster, firearms master, firearms coordinator,, safety coordinator, stunt coordinator, and under some circumstances the director and/or assistant director (or sometimes more than 2 of them)... are specifically and explicitly responsible for this... NOT THE ACTORS THEMSElVES...
Yes, this goes against every instinct we as shooters have drilled into us over our lives in order to safely handle firearms... But its absolutely necessary that someone other than the actors themselves MUST be responsible for ensuring the safe handling and operation of the firearms in the scene, because the ENTIRE POINT of staging such a scene, is that the actors must be able to realistically and convincingly perform and appear to the audience and the camera, to actually be shooting the firearm at their intended target.
The whole system is designed to let them be as convincing and realistic as possible and NOT have to think about "Ok I actually have to make sure I'm not really doing what I'm supposed to look like I'm doing"... which would certainly result in both unrealistic performances AND the actors screwing up and hurting people unintentionally anyway.
So... as absolutely wrong as it may feel to most experienced shooters, no, Baldwin is NOT responsible for that woman's death.
If someone is not familiar with the Hexum incident...
In 1984, during an unexpectedly long wait between filming two scenes involving loading and firing a .44 revolver, young model and actor Jon-erik Hexum was pretending to play Russian roulette. The scene he was waiting to film involved firing "blank" cartridges, and a fully functional firearm was used, with what were at the time standard full powder charge theatrical "blanks".
Hexum was playing with the revolver and "blank" cartridges, unloading all the cartridges, then reloading the cylinder with a single "blank", spinning the cylinder and closing it. Pressing the muzzle of the revolver directly to his temple, and pulling the trigger, which by chance dropped the hammer on the loaded chamber igniting the "blank" cartridge. Although there was no "bullet" in the "blank", there was a cardboard end seal with some inert filler or "wadding"... this keeps the powder in the "blank" from shifting, spilling, getting moist with humidity etc... this cardboard was propelled out the muzzle of the revolver by the powder charge of the "blank" with enough force, that when pressed up against the thin point of his temple, the cardboard and the hot powder gasses themselves, had enough energy and momentum to fracture Hexums skull, and propel the fractured bone fragments into his brain, resulting in severe brain damage, and hemorrhaging in his brain. A few hours later, Hexum died from this injury.
In the aftermath of Hexums death, all the major North American film, television, and stage guilds and unions, adopted uniform and MANDATORY rules for safe handling of firearms, ammunition, and stage/theatrical simulants thereof (generally referred to as firearms safety protocols). If firearms or stage simulants (or realistic firearm replicas which may be used in a manner that has the potential to cause injury) are used in a scene, or even on a set but not used in a scene... if they're even PRESENT outside of safe secured storage... then firearms safety protocols are in effect, and all the rules must always be followed by everyone other set (whether they are involved in the scene or production or not). Period....
...No U.S. union/guild production following those rules (or non union/guild production that followed them that I know of for that matter), has had a fatality or serious injury from either a stage simulant firearm (a propane/flammable gas/flammable liquid, compressed gas, or reduced power powder charge plugged or restricted bore blank/stage simulant cartridge firing replica), or a fully functional firearm using blank/stage simulant cartridges.
The worst injuries that have happened that I know of, when they actually followed the rules... or even when they only violated ONE of the rules, not two or more... are some hot gas and debris in the eyes, or the surface of the skin (hands and cheeks seem to be the common areas), a couple people have had a slightly more serious injury by violating one of the major rules BUT NOT TWO at once.. And a few people have had some hearing damage or even a perforated ear drum (from the muzzle being too close to someone's ear, and them not wearing hearing protection... Its recommended for everyone in a scene where a firearm or stage simulant will be set off, but its not actually required by rule, and many performers don't want their hearing or their reactions to be impacted by the hearing protection... its their choice).
At least six US productions since Hexum that I know of have failed to follow at least two of the rules, and have experienced fatalities or critical injuries as a direct result.... the most famous of course being Brandon Lee... this makes seven.