Self Defense as Defense in Court

[eddiememphis]

What jury? It never went to trial. The DA didn't charge him with the wrong crime, the DA isn't charging him AT ALL.

He was formally charged with 2nd degree murder in October of 2020. The DA dropped the cases because, "We are not able to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt."

My point is the burden of proof the State must provide in order to get a conviction is likely less for manslaughter than 2nd degree murder, although if the claim of self defense is enough to dismiss the high charge, it likely would be in the lesser as well.

Which goes to my original post. Would the jury finding Rittenhouse not guilty due to self defense have an effect on this case? It looks to that it may have. The Denver DA looked at the outcome of that trial and may have concluded that this would turn out the same.

That seems much more likely than a backroom conspiracy where they gathered and someone said, "He was working for the news, which is promoting a leftist agenda. Let's let him go, he did the right thing killing that racist, Trump loving hate monger."

[.455_Hunter]

He was formally charged with 2nd degree murder in October of 2020. The DA dropped the cases because, "We are not able to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt."

My point is the burden of proof the State must provide in order to get a conviction is likely less for manslaughter than 2nd degree murder, although if the claim of self defense is enough to dismiss the high charge, it likely would be in the lesser as well.

Which goes to my original post. Would the jury finding Rittenhouse not guilty due to self defense have an effect on this case? It looks to that it may have. The Denver DA looked at the outcome of that trial and may have concluded that this would turn out the same.

That seems much more likely than a backroom conspiracy where they gathered and someone said, "He was working for the news, which is promoting a leftist agenda. Let's let him go, he did the right thing killing that racist, Trump loving hate monger."

So you don't think "Unlicensed Fox News security guard kills local community activist at BLM protest" wouldn't have gotten more prosecutorial dedication?

[eddiememphis]

So you don't think "Unlicensed Fox News security guard kills local community activist at BLM protest" wouldn't have gotten move prosecutorial dedication?

That's two different factors.

Had you asked if he was working for Fox and killed the same guy, I'd say it is less of a factor than a lot of people want to believe it was.

If he was still working for 9 and killed a community activist on the BLM or antifa side, I do think there would have been pressure or motivation to convict.

However, lack of proof by the state to go to trial would still be lack of proof.

Many people are outraged and would love to find a conspiracy at work. I'd like to see the fool in jail- he killed a guy, unjustly in my view. But so did Rittenhouse and he is held up as a 2nd amendment/self defense hero.

While I don't like the outcome or especially the way the DA's office did it, it is the burden of the state to prove charges beyond reasonable doubt. If they can't do that, they shouldn't.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Kyle's shoots were text book. Maybe he shouldn't have been there in the first place, as in a bad idea, not illegally- but the shoots were cleaner than clean.

This guy got shot for an open hand slap and then retreated- to which the shooter drew his weapon. It as only the editing of the pics that made it look like the shooter was shooting after the spray. The spray was in response to the pulling of the gun. Also, there are pics from behind the deceased, the shooter could have faced charges for that.

That the Kyle case went to court AND he had to take the stand AND he had all the evidence on his side AND he was still almost convicted, versus this guy not even going to court? Put it in a grand jury, let them parse it out.


Hey, if the net effect is that I can draw on a person after they bitch slap and retreat- I'm all for that. The DA in effect has lowered the bar for a self-defense shoot. This goes beyond a Stand-Your-Ground law.

[RblDiver]

On the flip side, there's no statue of limitations on murder, so if a different prosecutor with balls gets in, he can still be charged later, no double jeopardy.

[Aloha_Shooter]

He was formally charged with 2nd degree murder in October of 2020. The DA dropped the cases because, "We are not able to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt."

My point is the burden of proof the State must provide in order to get a conviction is likely less for manslaughter than 2nd degree murder, although if the claim of self defense is enough to dismiss the high charge, it likely would be in the lesser as well.

Which goes to my original post. Would the jury finding Rittenhouse not guilty due to self defense have an effect on this case? It looks to that it may have. The Denver DA looked at the outcome of that trial and may have concluded that this would turn out the same.

That seems much more likely than a backroom conspiracy where they gathered and someone said, "He was working for the news, which is promoting a leftist agenda. Let's let him go, he did the right thing killing that racist, Trump loving hate monger."

I don't think so. This DA would have prosecuted Rittenhouse to fullest extent. IMO, she dropped the case because she never wanted to prosecute the guy anyway. He only shot a deplorable anyway, she probably would have preferred to give him an award.

[TheGrey]

I can understand the prosecutors point. I hope he still has to answer for being unlicensed, which is probably just a fine or something.

Security guards require no licensing in Colorado.

[kidicarus13]

Security guards require no licensing in Colorado.

I'm confused.

[BPTactical]

To my knowledge although a license is not required by the state Denver, City & County of requires a license.
Typical Denver.

[Martinjmpr]

Security guards require no licensing in Colorado.

There are a smattering of local jurisdictions that require licenses. Denver is one. Greenwood Village used to require one as well. I think Boulder might require a license but I'm not sure. It's been a couple of decades since I worked security so I don't know what the rules are now but Denver has required private guards to be licensed since before I turned 21 (and that was a LONG time ago. )