Eotech or LVPO for General Purpose Rifle?

[NewToThis]

The age old question, red dot(and magnifier) or LVPO? I recently built out an AR, a 14.5 BCM upper on an Aero Precision M4E1 lower. What I'm now debating is my optic choice. This is my first blaster, it will be used for anything and everything from a bump in the night to range days and whatever else comes down the road. I don't necessarily plan to shoot at longer ranges with it however I would not be opposed to it and see the value in having the capability. I have narrowed it down to an Eotech EXPS 3-0 and the Vortex Viper PST Gen II 1-6 LVPO. I've done lots of research on what both optics are good at and I've gotten stuck. The conclusion I have came to is that both optics have pro's and con's, however neither have any drawbacks that cannot be overcome by training. As of now, the Eotech is sitting at ~$650 and the Viper, including a mount(Badger 1.70''), will set me back ~$900. Right now I am drawn to the Eotech because of the money I can save to put towards more training. At the same time, I am concerned the Eotech will leave me wanting more in the form of a magnifier or a different optic to reach out to greater distances. Does anyone have time with either of these optics or similar counterparts that might be able to guide my purchase? I'm also open to suggestions on other optics, however my budget caps out around $900 for an optic and a mount(if needed). Thank you in advance.

[battlemidget]

Get both and put the scope on a QD mount.
My personal preference is a red dot atop a detach carry handle and a normal-ish (not a popup) front sight for general use rifle.

[longrange2]

Also check out an Optika 6, I have a 1-6 and have been happy with it. I always prefer a LVPO because I like to be able to engage longer distance targets. Red dots seem to cover too much of the target for me.

[zimagold]

If it is your one do all rifle an LPVO makes a lot of sense.

I would email scott@libertyoptics.com, he sometimes comes through with really good prices on certain items. Low overhead vendor that is popular on the hide, be aware he is just a drop shipper not a full blown retail outfit.

Maybe save some money and look at an Midwest Industries or ADM 1.7 inch mount instead of the Badger.

As recommended by a poster above, I would use any savings from those two options to pickup a Holosun HS403R or similar with ADM mount and have two setups to practice and learn what you like.

LPVOs offer a lot, but it is really hard to explain how much a 6oz vs 30oz optic combo changes the handling of a compact 14.5 inch gun. Depending on your eyesight, a red dot can be quite effective out to 200yds. I do not recommend Eotechs to anyone, so no real comments for that option.

Alternatives to the Gen II PST would be the more recent but less known Delta Striker HD Mil/Mil and maybe a lower cost Steiner P4Xi if you can find one.

P4Xis were a good value before the retail price jumped $800 and the BDC happens to work out really well for 77s at our altitude from shorter 12.5-14.5 inch barrels. I have used one out to 600 with good effect on a 14.5.

[mark4]

I couldn't decide either, so I splurged and got the Eotech and a G33 magnifier combo. Very quick to flip the magnifier in and out of the way for those bumps in the night or those 50-yard shots. Pricey, though.

[ray1970]

Since batteries will be in short supply and difficult to find in a major shtf/apocalypse I would consider something that doesn?t run on batteries.

I?m kind of old school though and still prefer irons on my do-all, go-to carbines. They?re tough and simple and hitting anything person sized out to about 500 yards isn?t difficult. Obviously if you want me to punch sub-moa groups at 2-3 hundred yards then I?m going to be limited by my equipment and abilities but that?s the joy of owning multiple tools for different jobs.

I guess to actually answer your question then I would say get an Aimpoint PRO and spend your leftover funds on ammunition so you can practice and enjoy shooting.

[Tim K]

I'm an LPVO guy myself. Mine all work almost equally as well as a red dot when at 1X magnification with the reticle illuminated. They're still pretty fast up close even without the illumination during the day. Obviously, they're pretty useless in the dark or low light without the illumination on. I have back up irons (magpul) on some, but have never had to resort to them.

Even if I don't need the magnification to make a hit, I like the idea of having as much magnification as possible to identify a target before I shoot it. Plus, hits on a full size ipsc are routine out to 750 with just 4 or 6 power.

[CHA-LEE]

I think you need to decide on what type of shooting you will be doing with this AR. No, the answer can't be "Everything....". Pick a specific use case and build up the blaster around that requirement. A Red Dot sight like an Eotech will give you much more flexibility in eye relief while shooting from funky shooting positions. With the 1MOA center dot you can still hit stuff with good precision at 200+ yards unmagnified. Add a flip up 3x - 5x magnifier and then you can easily reach out past 500 yards.

If you want to shoot tiny groups taking all day to do it from super stable shooting positions then get an LVPO. 1 - 6 or 1 - 8 is more than enough magnification for most reasonable targets within 600 yards. Also accept the fact that running an LVPO will require a much more refined cheek weld to eliminate scope shadow when shooting from funky positions.

Your best tool to determine which optic is best for your current skill set and use case is to run both setups on a VTAC wall through the varied shooting positions with an A/C Zone steel target at 100 yards. A VTAC wall will quickly expose the positives or negatives of each optic setup. Be prepared to embrace the suck if you make the wrong decision.

[HoneyBadger]

That Vortex optic is nice and will be a great shooter out to 600yds and beyond. Red dots have a completely different intended purpose of engaging targets that are particularly close (i.e: home defense), whereas any scope will be less than optimal in most home defense situations. The "do everything" solution of a red dot with a magnifier works for some folks, but I find it unnecessarily heavy and bulky. Since you mentioned "Bumps in the night", my favorite for the past few years for less than 200yds is a trijicon RMR dual illuminated (no batteries, works well at night, very minimal weight, easy to shoot both eyes open, doesn't block FOV). For anything 50-600yds, I think a LPVO is perfect and Vortex makes good stuff.

I think you need to determine the purpose for this rifle and then find a solution that fits within your budget. If you had a bigger budget, I would recommend a red dot on a QD mount for home defense, and then a LPVO on a QD mount for when you leave the house. Unfortunately, the budget you'd need there is probably in the $1200-1500 range (although still cheaper than buying a second rifle).

[SpamOnRye]

If I had just one rifle I’d prefer the Red dot, red dot/magnifier. Out to 200y the red dot is fastest, not that a LPVO is terribly slow, with practice you can be fast with anything from irons to RDS to LPVO. I would say the RDS would cover a minimum of 95% of things you may need an AR or a carbine for. They offer ease of use, faster (typically), less weight and less of a footprint so you can add a magnifier and still have room for BUIS. As for the lack of magnification, don’t shoot at things you cannot positively ID, which is usually under 100y. Most self defense scenarios are very close so your longest “known distance” shot might be the longest distance in your house which again the RDS will shine as being faster and lighter. Need to ID something half way down the block? That’s Magnifier territory. No one optic problem combination is going to cover all bases but the RDS will cover all the bases and the infield. However the LPVO is what covers the outfield better than RDS/MAG. Not that you can’t do it but trying to figure out holds beyond 400 take time, patience and not your cheapest ammunition if you want the consistency. LPVO offer a variety of reticles that you can utilize with BDC and the like as well you can always dial in for range and wind. The LPVO with a micro dot or offset irons work but also mean more money in mounts and optics, more weight and more maintenance with batteries, zeroing for different loads etc.
now that I have rambled on, I’ll break down my setups as I have all the things I just talked about and why I have them like I do.
My 13.7 is my lightest rifle. I have an Eotech and a 3x Vortex mini magnifier. This is one of my favorite set ups for anything inside 300y and I want to use it at a few matches to see how I like to magnifier at distance on the clock
My 14.5 has fixed irons and an Aimpoint, that is a rifle I keep simple with everything I need and nothing I don’t.
My 16” Aero has fixed front and Rear sights. Sometimes I think irons are fun and should be a fundamentally learned skill. That’s the one I let people shoot first before they the the “leveled up” rifles.
My 16” FN has a 1-6 Viper. This one is in the works still as I am going to add the Micro red dot to it. Once I get a few matches in I can offer a more insight but for now I still like it. Picking the right rifle set up helps keep the weight balanced to not make it feel “weird “ or like I’m steering a boat instead of a rifle.
My 18” I have a 3x9 on. That’s for usually 300-600y.
The 1-6 can still do everything from 3y to 600 but again it loses in speed and ease of use to the red dot inside 200. Especially if you’re at a higher magnification and have a target inside 50. It doesn’t take forever to get target acquisition but sometime those fractions of a second count. Past 300 the Variable is definitely the better option.
To summarize, there is no right/wrong just what’s going to fit your needs, budget and expectations the best while leaving the smallest gaps “on the field”. Sorry about my baseball analogy, it’s just what popped into my head while typing.
This was also all typed on my phone so I apologize for not proof reading and any spelling errors I didn’t correct.
Hope it helps.