Open Discussion of all Things Electric Vehicle (aka EV) for Those Pro or Con, BE RESPECTFUL!

[ray1970]

60+ miles per day on a work week? Why not just plug it in at night & have a full charge each day?

Legit question as I know nothing about the subject.

If you made a habit of charging the battery when it was still half full would this affect the battery in a negative way over an extended time?

[MrPrena]

I am currently charging my battery when I had 51% full, because I still only have Level 1 charger (show charger). Level 2 charger is coming tomorrow. It is like similar to cell phone. I think fast charger gets the battery to lose capacity faster long run than frequent level 1 or 2 charging. Also, charging 100% vs 80-90% makes it huge difference.

My salesperson drives an EV, and he put his max charge at 80% to prolong the battery. He told me that many ev users do. He did that setting for me. Of course, I can change it back to 100% charge capacity. Very reason I usually charge my phone upto 80-90%.

At 90%, I will have about 215 miles. Enough to have comfortable round trip from Thornton to Olympic Training facility in Colorado Springs (87mi from my house).

[Jer]

Let's not exaggerate. I've told you before that I regularly drive back from Tucson in a single day. Doing that via EV would turn the return into a 2-day trip. I take regular rest stops but I don't want to pend 45 minutes or more charging/fueling up.

I got an EV (not a Tesla) as a loaner one holiday weekend last summer (recent enough for you?). Thought this was great until the meter got down below 50 miles and I looked around for a place to recharge. I got to a public Type 3 charger and -- after waiting for 2 other people to get their hour charge in -- spent an hour getting the battery back up to about 1/3 capacity. It cost me about 25% more than 16 gallons of premium gas for less than half the mileage I could have got in the fun car. That decided me right then and there that I'm taking an EV -- even as a loaner -- until there is much wider availability of quicker charging or I'm in a house with its own Type 2 charger. Putting a Type 2 in my house would be relatively inexpensive but I have no need for one unless or until I decide to get an EV.

I'd certainly be more amenable to an EV if I were living back in Hawaii but of course there's no such thing as a long road trip there and there are environmental concerns there that aren't applicable here.

As far as point 1 goes, the fact of the matter is that you lose significant battery capacity in cold temperatures. That loss is far more than "slightly" decreased range -- the decrease may or may not be relevant depending on your driving during that period but you are really understating the effect. Similarly, you're overstating impact of preheating the car for 2-3 minutes by opening your app versus preheating a ICE car for a little bit longer (and not taking into account the relative effect on the vehicle's range after preheating). Again, if your driving pattern is short distances between recharges then the effect on the vehicle's range is irrelevant. If you have to worry about refilling an empty tank in the winter (I typically don't let the tank get that low in winter) versus recharging the battery at home every night, it's actually a plus for the EV but the driving pattern really matters.

In summary, I would say "not practical" is based on individual situation and NOT a misperception for most as you claim.

I'm not sure why you assumed I was talking about you but... okay. I say misperception because even in that post you have an awful lot of misperceptions and have come to a blanket conclusion and are now spreading that information as if it was fact.

This idea that it takes 45min each stop and every stop isn't realistic. At least not in the right car. My stops in a Tesla at a Supercharger on road trips is probably 20min +/-5min. Some stops are shorter, some longer. Usually though, on our road trips, we set out in the morning whenever we wake up with a full charge. The first stop we make a couple of hours later is usually one of those 20min +/-5min stops I just described. This will usually get us another couple of hours down the road to the next Super charger stop. By then, it's lunch so we plug in and walk somewhere nearby to sit down and eat. Then, when we return (yes, it can be ~45min later at time) we're fully charged and ready to go. The afternoon segment of our trips look nearly identical to the morning leg I just described with dinner and then, if we're feeling up to it, another 2 hour leg before settling down somewhere for the night that has charging so we can repeat the same thing the next day. Keep in mind, this is in a car that maxes out at 300mph charge rates. The new versions of this same car are capable of Supercharging speeds exceeding 3x this rate. This is what I'm talking about about how fast this technology is advancing. Even the 2013, 2014 and 2015's we owned charged noticeably slower than this 2017.

I actually just bought a 2017 Tesla Model S P100D in Phoenix and drove it back. I left Phoenix @ 5:00pm and headed for the nearest In-N-Out burger before heading towards Fort Collins. I arrived at In-N-Out burger in Aurora at 3:00pm the next day. Keep in mind, I didn't exceed 5mph over any posted speed limit once. I wasn't in a hurry either just didn't really stop for anything other than charge stops, meals, bathroom, snacks and stretching my legs. I took a nap at one point that I think was 3-4 hours maybe. Forget exactly how long. I also paid WELL under $100 for all of my Supercharging stops for this trip. Supercharging is the most expensive way to charge one of these and it was still far cheaper than gas. The other 99% of the time I charge I do it at home and it cost pennies... literally. The point is, these trips aren't nearly as different as you're making them seem. We haven't even covered any of the advantages of having a Tesla and how much more enjoyable these trips are in one.

Your first hand experience with an EV was in a POS from the sounds of it. It's not fair to claim that's how they all are. This is one of the big things I hear all of the time. Someone had a crappy Leaf or whatever and assume that's how all EVs are. Not all EVs are created equally and judging the entire segment off of the performance of the worst examples isn't realistic. Your experience is exactly why the Supercharging network that Tesla has built out is so important. Or, even more important, if you owned it you likely wouldn't have to randomly find charging mid-day because it would be fully charged at the start of each day if that's what you wanted. You also don't need any special charging in your home for a Tesla.

No, you do not lose significant battery capacity in cold temperatures. These loss experienced in EVs other than Tesla tend to be higher so, again, you have to separate manufacturers of EVs just like you do every other car made. I still don't understand what some look at all EVs as the same no matter what. Tesla has a patented method for battery thermal management. The batteries themselves are kept at a temperature at all times (even when not being driven) that is far more efficient. The method by which this is achieved uses very little energy. In my real world tests, I get roughly 20% lower efficiency in the winter than I do the summer in my Teslas. People who are anti-EV right away say "See?!" but they don't bother comparing to the other option: ICE vehicles. In my years driving ICE vehicles in Colorado I would experience a similar 20% decrease in efficiency as I always tracked my MPG with every tank of gas. If you compare apples to apples you will find that the two technologies aren't all that different in this area... assuming you get the right one.

Talking about preheating a vehicle... These aren't comparable. I can walk out to my Tesla in the morning and, even if I don't precondition the car at all, the car is comfortable immediately. This is because they use resistive heat and are producing heat immediately. Don't try to tell me that on a cold morning an ICE vehicle is making warm air in 2-3 minutes because I know better. I drove for far too many decades in the winter in Colorado and Nebraska to not have extensive experience with how long this takes in various situations. The Tesla wins this every time and it's not even a competition.

Again, if you don't want one I'm not here to convince you otherwise. I just wanted people to have real data with which to make their decision. Choosing what vehicle you buy specifically for less than 1% of it's intended use is a sure fire way to buy the wrong vehicle for other 99% of the intended use.

[Jer]

From the other thread:



All prime issues for me. And add that I, not infrequently either, travel to remote locations that require an additional tank on the bed to get there and back. Part of my life might work an EV even with poor recharge options in rural weld county, but the other part is an absolute no-go at this time/technology.

The lack of used cars in the EV market is just a matter of time. Mostly only new available at the moment, but as time moves on, the owners who need that newest model will trade up and the used market will grow. And I suspect the EV market has a good selection of owners who absolutely need the newest out there to keep up with the Kardashians next door.

I cant wait till the hammered EV hoopties start showing up with Youtube DIY battery regen tricks and whatnot. That'll be awesome!

Don't forget, electricity is more ubiquitous than gas stations. See my direct responses to that post for more details. We're just conditioned to see the gas stations on every corner in town but when you get out to the sticks I see lots of places with electricity even when no gas stations are present for miles.

[Gman]

I am currently charging my battery when I had 51% full, because I still only have Level 1 charger (show charger). Level 2 charger is coming tomorrow. It is like similar to cell phone. I think fast charger gets the battery to lose capacity faster long run than frequent level 1 or 2 charging. Also, charging 100% vs 80-90% makes it huge difference.

My salesperson drives an EV, and he put his max charge at 80% to prolong the battery. He told me that many ev users do. He did that setting for me. Of course, I can change it back to 100% charge capacity. Very reason I usually charge my phone upto 80-90%.

At 90%, I will have about 215 miles. Enough to have comfortable round trip from Thornton to Olympic Training facility in Colorado Springs (87mi from my house).

Can you see all of the capacity of the battery?

The reason I ask is that I recall a while back that Tesla was building cars with the same battery pack but you had to pay extra to get the extra range. During a hurricane, they allowed owners in the path to have the extra range 'for free' in order to get out of harms way. So...even if the indicator is saying "100%", is it possible there's some cushion placed there by the manufacturer to prevent charging right up to the edge of full capacity on a regular basis?

[Jer]

I live in a condo. I do not have a garage. What will it cost to have chargers installed for 96 parking spots? Until then, where would I charge it?

I drive a lot doing home inspections so I would want a full charge every morning. The nearest charging station is four miles away. That is not practical for me.

I have an old Tacoma I have looked into converting to electric. I would love to do it but charging it is a problem.

I never said that EVs were practical for everyone. If you live in an apartment and they don't provide outlets or you don't have anything nearby then there's not much you can do. Knowing what I know now though and how much I save and just generally never wanting to go to a gas station again I would actively select a place that offered charging in some manner. It all comes down to what your priorities are and you make decisions based on these. Doesn't it easy or even viable in some cases but it may be possible. If not, then an EV may not be for you. At least not right now anyway. As they gain popularity you see more and more apartment complexes and similar structures starting to offer it though to attract more business. This will continue happening at a higher rate as the adoption rate continues increasing.

[Gman]

Don't forget, electricity is more ubiquitous than gas stations. See my direct responses to that post for more details. We're just conditioned to see the gas stations on every corner in town but when you get out to the sticks I see lots of places with electricity even when no gas stations are present for miles.

Ubiquitous does not equal accessible. Were there accessible charging stations in the sticks with no gas stations present for miles?

[Jer]

Curious to know how long a Tesla can maintain 125+ without letting the magic smoke out

125mph sustained? No problem but.... why?

That's another advantage to these Teslas because you can hammer on them all day every day and they just keep going. It's just an giant electric motor after all. No transmission or the absurd amount of moving/spinning parts that can grenade at any moment like on an ICE vehicle.

I can't tell you how many parts and cars I broke at speeds much less than 25mph and with much less abuse. These things are engineered to take the abuse more so than any other vehicle I've ever owned. The simplistic nature of it's parts list (or nearly complete lack thereof) helps with this as well. A fraction of the parts and nearly zero moving parts increases reliability.

[Jer]

Imagine inductive charging… pull up to a space and your car charges with no cord…

This is some of the tech we're going to be seeing soon enough. I doubt apt complexes would pop for it anytime soon as it's not going to be cheap for quite some time but advancements like this and plenty others in this segment will revolutionize how we look at transportation.

[Jer]

The current market of EVs is not practical for me. Wife and I have particular needs so neither are 90% of ICE vehicles.

Time is our most valuable commodity and I'm not going to spend 45 minutes to an hour getting less range than I can with a gasoline powered vehicle. I'm also not going to let the charging infrastructure dictate the path of my travel and add scheduling criteria.

Tesla's new Model S has over 400 miles of range on a single charge and can replace 80% of that range in like 10-15 minutes.