Ukraine - Take two

[hollohas]

Trump spent more in 4 years than any other US president, ever. Isn't the concern over 50 billion and the blind eye towards 7 trillion (Trump deficit increased ~140 times as much) kind of hypocritical?

You sound exactly like a CNN fact check. Comparing total spending to just Ukrainian aid spending (which is actually more the $50B).

The Trump era spending was a major problem, no doubt. (And arguably his biggest flaw as a president). But that's completely off topic when discussing if we should be involved in Ukraine.

"We shouldn't be spending money in Ukraine"

"Well, the other guy spent a bunch of money on things too, so stop complaining".

Pro level argument there. Not one person here has argued that Trump spending= good, Biden spending = bad.

If you must compare the two, be sure to include Biden's $1.9T American Rescue plan at minimum.

[eddiememphis]

I have yet to hear a compelling reason to side with Ukraine.

A poster on another thread showed the mineral wealth available to whoever controls the region.

I understand preventing your so-called enemy from controlling mineral wealth in order to keep them from becoming stronger. However, Russia has shown that they are very inept at maximizing the existing mineral wealth they have.

This has already turned into a proxy war. Pelosi and her sycophants vowing allegiance with the current government in Ukraine does nothing but further in flame existing animosity between United States and Russia.

What is the tangible benefit of the United States backing Ukraine?

As more money is tossed as this nonsense, I am still waiting to hear a good reason for this spending.

https://www.defenseone.com/policy/20...ce-day/376213/

"The U.S. is expected to announce the largest weapons and aid package yet for Ukraine on Wednesday, a $3 billion package that would push total U.S. aid well past the annual budgets of at least eight federal programs, including the entire judicial branch."

"That total is more than the annual budget of some federal programs, such as the National Science Foundation ($9.2 billion) and the Small Business Administration ($1.7 billion), according to Statista. It is larger than the annual budgets of the federal judiciary ($9.7 billion), Congress ($6.6 billion), or the Executive Office of the President ($0.6 billion). It is creeping up on the budgets of the Environmental Protection Agency ($15.9 billion), if not NASA ($24.9 billion)."

[BushMasterBoy]

Only way you can test our weapons systems in the real world/time. Especially against a known adversary. The value is in the unknowns becoming known, without a tragic loss of US troops. The conflict also becomes a huge intelligence treasure trove. We get to see an adversary use all sorts of systems and glean data from them. My understanding is we spent 7 trillion on the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts.

[BushMasterBoy]

Russia is calling up 300,000 military reservists and drafting military age men. Flights out of Moscow are sold out. Putin is threatening the use of nuclear weapons. People are protesting in the streets and being arrested. Seems the Rus plan is to escalate the Ukraine situation.

[hollohas]

Russian men got 4 hours notice to pack their shit and get on a bus to go fight.

That doesn't sound good.

Wonder if they're going to have to share rifles too like in the past.

[Gman]

Sharing 100 year old Mosins.

I know a few days ago the web search engines in Russia were showing the leading subject was 'how to leave Russia'.

The Russians are also recruiting from prisons. The problem is, they're sending these people to the front lines with no training. The Ukrainians, whom have had training in Western doctrine and are using modern western weapons, have been killing lots of them. The people being forced to go fight Ukraine may find it more survivable to fight their own government.

[Great-Kazoo]

Sharing 100 year old Mosins.

I know a few days ago the web search engines in Russia were showing the leading subject was 'how to leave Russia'.

The Russians are also recruiting from prisons. The problem is, they're sending these people to the front lines with no training. The Ukrainians, whom have had training in Western doctrine and are using modern western weapons, have been killing lots of them. The people being forced to go fight Ukraine may find it more survivable to fight their own government.

Or reconnect with their former crime element and get back to business.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Putin seems headed toward recreating the 1905 revolution. The Russian people want a strong leader but I don't think they want national suicide. He's already got significant protests in country from the mothers of the soldiers who were sent to Ukraine as it is and there's a point where the Army is not going to turn their rifles on their own mothers or their comrades' mothers.

[BushMasterBoy]

Even if Putin uses a nuclear weapon against the Ukrainian capital, I don't think that will capitulate in a surrender. If anything it will increase the resolve of NATO support for Ukraine. Deploying F-16's to Pueblo is telling me something is going on. It is obvious the CINC is not capable if we go to DEFCON 1

https://www.chieftain.com/story/news...d/69511782007/

[Joe_K]

https://youtu.be/VXkGBNDVAH8

Russia and Ukraine is NOT our fight. That said, the rabid anti Russian crowds roar is deafening. Read up on how people that lived in America payed for the 1917 Revolution. Up until that point, Russia was one of the greatest Allies America ever had. The amount of Money that was pumped into the USSR to keep it afloat for as long as it did only allowed for the continuation of the evils of Communism.

WW2 almost sealed the deal, if Patton had been given free reign we might have avoided much bloodshed in the latter half of the 20th century. After WW2, slowly the Russian People and other Eastern European Nations began picking the locks on attached to their chains of slavery and started going their own way, this caused great concern by those looking to Capitalize on chaos and human suffering, who wished for nothing more than International Communism.

The American think tanks, (I use that term ever so loosely), that were and still are seeking to conquer and divide Russia into several different smaller corporations and eliminate the Russian National identity are the ones that created the 2014 Coup, propped up the Non-Ukrainian Gay Actor known as Zelensky, and started this mess in the first place. If those same people want to volunteer their time and efforts into doing human wave attacks against Russian machine guns, let them, but not me or mine.

If you have not figured out that foreign wars and entanglements are bad yet, go re-read Washingtons farewell address, the Monroe doctrine, and the Not Yours To Give Crockett letter.

To recap, Russia ceased to be communist quite awhile ago. The Warsaw Pact ceased to exist, yet NATO was made larger, stronger, and cost more. Russia actually tried to join NATO, their rejection from membership of course demonstrated the ludicrousness of the situation. The American hatred of Russia is driven by insanity.