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We don't have to be taught how to be good. We are good. It's our natural state.
This is the problem today, is that the Government is making everyone scared of everyone else.
They have no regard for the philosophy that we are all born good.
-John
Looking at human history, being good is not a natural state.
More personally, why do parents need to teach their children not to lie, cheat and steal? Look at the news. It is full of people that were not taught to be good.
Government is not "making everyone scared of everyone else." People have good reason to be scared of others.
A philosophy is just that. No one shares the exact same ideals.
Certain sects of Islam celebrate what an American Christian would find evil. Their philosophy is different. Better in their view, worse in yours. And mine.
Apparently we are at an impasse, as I don't think I can make a more passionate argument to the fact that we are all good.
You can live in your scary little world, and I will live in my world.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they
are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life,
liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
-Thomas Jefferson, Author, Declaration of Independence, 1776
Fair enough.
I agree you are passionate. You have not countered any of my points with anything other that your assertion that people are born good because babies are cute.
I do give you that point. Babies are adorable!
You have obviously misunderstood me. I do not live in a "scary little world".
I am simply more of a pragmatist than an idealist.
Your Jefferson quote leaves out morality. One man may pursue happiness by helping and giving. Another may find happiness in slaughter and mayhem.
If all men are born good, what drives them to act badly?
Kids are evil. You cannot convince me otherwise. This is a hill I am willing to die on.
Despite all the knowledge and studies, there is a dogged perception that personality is just magical and bad people come about because bad things happen to them.
Genetics plays a HUGE role in personality, in vitro health plays a HUGE role, and then first year attachment plays a very large role....
And "nuture" is a player, but second fiddle. Magic is not part of it, a kid isn't universally something. Rarely, some are born entirely unable to experience higher emotion. They are psychopathic even as a child.
The other thing that surprises me to is that we don't widely acknowledge as a society the way a child's brain develops. E.g. at a certain age they understand object permanence. At a certain age they understand ____, and then, the understanding that actions have long term consequences is something that really takes a much, much older child to fully understand. By the time a child can begin to wrap their mind around that, their personality, behaviors, and by far and large their morals were already formed and cemented.
You know what they don't understand at a young age? Concepts that they should be "good" because they are being "watched", and they'll be in trouble either in months at Chrismas, or when they die. Teaching a kid that they should be good because someone is watching - Santa, or anything else, does not work. Even if you get temporary compliance, you're teaching them that behavior should be transactional, and if they begin to believe they aren't being watched, what then? Luckily, most kids already successfully develop empathy regardless of these methods so they're fine, it is a natural development for a majority even when we try to screw it up. That's not to say that faith is a problem, it is only to say that by the time a child can wrap their head around such a belief, they are already largely the way they are already going to be. and the critical deadlines for brain plasticity have passed.
You know what does consistently work with very young children to give them even better odds of being good? 1) Being mindful of attachment and maintaining good attachment. Chaotic relationships inside the first couple years can have significant consequences. 2) Teaching them empathy in a way children understand. When they hurt people, they react. When they help people, they react. Very young children is not the age to be super-tough. 3) Teaching them that the reason they should be good, is self-accountable. If they break their own rules, they'll know, and who are they really? 4) Using books to calm a small child down when they are upset (backed in studies, long story).
Sometimes though, perfect parents give birth to a kid that is a psycho, because the combinations of genes and fetal development made their brain imperfect. Some people are born ugly on the outside, some are born ugly on the inside, and you can't fix that. Certainly, crappy people have a much higher chance of this happening when they have a child and don't mind attachment disorders and drugs.
Where can I get what you smoke?Originally Posted by arbol
Babies learn when they are hungry to cry...and realize crying gets them attention. Soon they cry when not hungry to get that attention. They lie. Even at the earliest age they do things that are wrong.
If you want peace, prepare for war.
Lord of the flies.
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