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  1. #21
    Death Eater Troublco's Avatar
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    There are lots of things that lots of folks don't like involving police. Their job isn't a popularity contest, though. Those guys walk around wearing what amounts to a target, wondering who's going to take a shot at them next, when, and where. How many of us go to work with the knowledge that there is a real possibility that we could get shot during our shift by someone who just doesn't like us for what we do? That one minute, you're driving around and the next you're involved in something that turns into a gunfight. I'll bet that Bruce VanderJagt didn't go to work without thinking, at least a little, that what happened to him could happen at any time. How many people have any idea what it's like to go to work knowing that at any time, you could be the target of any number of idiots who, in some cases, are trying to "prove themselves" for gang membership or some other utterly moronic reason to end someone's life? You expect that sort of thing could happen in a war zone. They expect it every day, in the places we call home.

    Cops should be held to a higher standard. However, at the same time you can't hold them to the exact same standard as your average citizen. That's what happens every time some idiot thinks that some soldier did something wrong and tries to hang them for it. You can't put someone in combat, especially in the sort of situations that occur with insurgents involved in urban combat environments, and then hang them every time some bean counter thinks they may have shot the wrong person. Combat is difficult, dangerous, and stressful in ways that can't be described to someone that hasn't been there. It changes people, forever. I have absolutely no doubt that being a cop is similar in many ways. They can't always tell who the bad guy is until they tip their hand, and by the time that happens the officer is behind the power curve. But saying that they have to protect everyone and enforce the law, and then say they have to do it while everyone with a cellphone camera watches for them to do the first thing wrong, is unrealistic. Is it right for an officer to beat someone after they're cuffed? No. That's brutality. Is it right for the first person with a camera to edit video showing only what they want to when someone has been resisting arrest with a vengeance? No!

    Bottom line : Before you paint a group of people, in this case police, with the same brush, walk a mile in their shoes and then see what you think.

    That doesn't excuse the times when an officer breaks the law, any more than it excuses a military member who blatantly breaks the regs. But you can't armchair quarterback everything. This particular situation was badly handled by the officer, I agree. But it isn't indicative of every such situation.

    And I've never heard of an officer taking an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Military, yes. Not police. Their job is to enforce the law in their area of responsibility, sort out crimes, and protect the people where they can. Because let's face it, there's no way they can protect all of us all the time. I believe most of them feel that is their duty, some might not.

    My earlier post was directed at the outcome; to me it seems apparent that Govt has come to a point where it (in an institutional sense) feels that the connection with the electorate has come to the point that we are there for it, instead of the way it should be. Especially now with Maobama's mob in there.

    Soapbox moment over.
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  2. #22
    Varmiteer
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    Remember there are those who give all for us too.
    R.I.P. Big Thompson Heros
    Sgt. W. Hugh Purdy, Colorado State Patrolman and Michael Conley Estes Park Police Officer

  3. #23
    Grand Master Know It All clublights's Avatar
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    Sometimes we have to remember that things are written in a manner to uphold the writers view

    Read the actual court documents .. and then you don't think the officer over reacted or was " out of line" at least I don't feel he did now .


    http://pacer.mad.uscourts.gov/dc/cgi...ubert%20mo.pdf

  4. #24
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    Well, my take on this is that probably the cop overreacted to a percieved threat. The lawyer should have been released and his weapon returned to him immediately upon his producing a valid concealed carry permit. If for some reason the officer could not verify the permit on the spot, then the officer should have defaulted to the premise that one is innocent untill proven guilty, and returned the weapon anyway.

    That said, knowing what I do of some lawyers, the guy was probably being a class A prick to the officer. To some degree, he probably brought it upon himself.

    I've found that most LEO I've encountered are rational and reasonable human beings most of the time. If a guy is honest and courteous, most times he won't have a problem if he wasn't doing anything illegal.

    One time I was driving south on Marksheffel road approaching Stetson Hills Blvd. The speed limit on that section of road was 50mph at the time. I was going about 60 as I was coming down that hill. Well, El Paso county had a motorcycle officer there shooting radar. He got me. He came up to my truck and retrieved my license, insurance, and registration.

    When he came back, he asked if I knew why he stopped me.

    I said, yeah, probably speeding

    He asked if I knew how fast I was going.

    I said, yeah, about 60..

    He replied in the affirmative.

    He then asked: Do you know what the posted speed limit is?

    Again, I replied, yeah, 50..

    He asked me then: Whats your hurry? Do you have a reason for driving so fast?

    I replied, no sir. I don't have any good reason. I was just coming down the hill and picking up speed. To tell you the truth, I didn't expect to find you at the bottom of it...

    He smiled a little bit, handed me back my paperwork, and said I appreciate your honesty. He told me to watch my speed and to have a nice day.

    He had me dead to rights. I was speeding and he caught me. I guess by my being polite, friendly and not giving him a hard time, he decided to cut me a break.

  5. #25
    Iceman sniper7's Avatar
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    sounds like an over-reaction on the cops part to me, the lawyer should have had the gun "concealed"...if the cop could see it driving by there is a problem. the lawyer is lucky we wasn't nailed for open carry or something to that effect...not sure what MA laws are on that matter.

    I understand the cops point of view but after showing a permit and doing what the officer requested the cop should take into account the guy probably has a valid ID and let him be on his way.

    I am sure we aren't seeing the full story here.

    My biggest issues are how the cop was driving by and saw the lawyer had a gun and why the cop didn't let him go after producing a valid ID.

    both guys are losers IMO.
    All I have in this world is my balls and my word and I don't break em for no one.

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  6. #26
    QUITTER Irving's Avatar
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    My issue is the attitude of the officer when he said, "No one is allowed to carry but me on my beat" or whatever he said. People who don't know, or won't accept laws, have no business upholding them. Everything else is neither here nor there in my opinion.
    "There are no finger prints under water."

  7. #27
    Rabid Anti-Dentite Hoser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elhuero View Post
    Cops do, every day, things that the rest of us would get a ticket and/or go to jail for.

    They can point loaded guns at us with impunity, and can kill us if we do the same to them.

    any LEOs here want to comment?
    So just exactly what did some Springs Cop do to you do make you hate all cops as much as you seem to?

    You take every chance you can to bash all LE.

    Its getting old. We get it. You dont like Cops.
    You know I like my coffee sweet in the morning
    and I'm crazy about my tea at night

  8. #28
    QUITTER Irving's Avatar
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    You guys need to quit being cry babies. Elhuero is FAR from a cop hater. I'm starting to think you've never even run into a cop hater before, but I know that can't possibly be true.
    "There are no finger prints under water."

  9. #29
    Fleeing Idaho to get IKEA Bailey Guns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eow View Post
    Pancho is correct. If someone else did what that cop did, that person would be in jail. Thus, because he was a cop he was treated differently than an ordinary citizen would have been. That much is clear.
    I think if you read your quote above you'll realize what you're saying really doesn't make sense.

    Of course anyone else would have been arrested/jailed if they weren't a police officer. That's because they don't have the authority to take the same type of law enforcement actions the police officer does. Don't you suppose that's why cops get badges and guns and pretty uniforms and get to drive around in cool cars?

    That's why cops can put you in handcuffs and take you to jail and not be charged with kidnapping.

    Joe citizen isn't authorized to go around and arrest people at gunpoint generally, just like they're not authorized by law to make traffic stops and take other enforcement action. Cops are.

    The rest??? What SAFriday said.

  10. #30
    Rabid Anti-Dentite Hoser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart View Post
    Elhuero is FAR from a cop hater.
    What color is the sky in your world...
    You know I like my coffee sweet in the morning
    and I'm crazy about my tea at night

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