Retail Is Dead

[Martinjmpr]

I know February is a slow month but I have been seeing the same things for the past decade or so and the trend is just continuing.

Here's an example: I lived in Englewood near Oxford and Santa Fe from 2007 - 2017. While we were living there, they redeveloped that area on the Southwest corner of Hampden/285 and Santa Fe that used to be filled with junkyards and turned it into the Riverpoint Development. Among other things it has a Costco, a Target, a Sportsman's Warehouse and some other retail stores.

But here's the thing: There were a bunch of small, "strip mall" style retail spaces that were created, some down by the movie theater and some across the parking lot from Target.

That redevelopment was done in 2008. There are store fronts in that shopping center that have NEVER had a tenant and remain vacant to this day.

15 years since they've been built and they have never had one paying tenant. I'm not a buisiness person but I can't help but think that somebody has lost some big money on that project.

SW Plaza (near where I live now) has been dying for years. I think the last time I went there was maybe a few months ago (before the holidays) and it was pretty dead back then, with lots of vacant store fronts with the mall trying to cover them up by putting up big splashy murals. Wife used to work in leasing at Park Meadows so she knows the mall leasing world and she says she can tell how bad it is at SW Plaza just because all the empty spaces mean so much less revenue.

However, it's not JUST the internet. It's also the various 'big box" and discount stores taking business away from smaller retailers. Go to any Home Depot or Lowe's on the weekend and you can hardly find a place to park. Ditto for Wal Mart Supercenter or even King Soopers. And Costco - good grief, don't EVER go to Costco on a Saturday unless you are a glutton for punishment.

So I think retailers are being squeezed from both sides: For small purchases, the Internet (and particularly Amazon prime) are often more viable than a brick-and-mortar store. Think about a typical M - F 9 to 5 worker: Let's say it's Monday and you need some small specialty item that you can't get at the grocery store. You say to yourself "well, maybe I can swing by the ______ store after work" but if the ____ store closes at 5:30 you might not make it before they close. So you say "well, I can go there on Saturday."

Sure you can, but you know what else you can do? Order it on Amazon from your computer on Monday morning and have it delivered to your house on Wednesday, which not only gets you the item you need, it also means one less chore on Saturday. So it's a "win" for you and for Amazon but a "lose" for the specialty store which really can't compete.

For commodity type goods - the things we all need and buy - the big box stores like Super Wal Mart and King Soopers are probably going to have it cheaper, in greater quantity, and unlike the mom-and-pop store that closes at 6:00, you can swing by at 9:30 PM or whenever its convenient to you.

I think the LGS's will be about the last small retailers to fold, though, just because having to have an FFL limits their competition. Wal Mart isn't going to start selling handguns and most of the other "big box" sporting goods stores offer a crappy selection of firearms and no real advantage in price. So LGS's will continue to be the place to go if you want to buy a firearm and take it home the same day. The logistics involved in buying via the internet also favor the LGS over the internet.

Of course "LGS" is a nebulous term. There are small shops and there are big-box "LGS" like 5280 that can buy in bulk and offer lower prices than the mom-and-pop gun shop on the corner.

[Martinjmpr]

Continuing my thought from above, this is also the reason I don't go to gun shows anymore. Between the internet and the big box stores, there's no real advantage to be found at a gun show.

[KevDen2005]

I know February is a slow month but I have been seeing the same things for the past decade or so and the trend is just continuing.

Here's an example: I lived in Englewood near Oxford and Santa Fe from 2007 - 2017. While we were living there, they redeveloped that area on the Southwest corner of Hampden/285 and Santa Fe that used to be filled with junkyards and turned it into the Riverpoint Development. Among other things it has a Costco, a Target, a Sportsman's Warehouse and some other retail stores.

But here's the thing: There were a bunch of small, "strip mall" style retail spaces that were created, some down by the movie theater and some across the parking lot from Target.

That redevelopment was done in 2008. There are store fronts in that shopping center that have NEVER had a tenant and remain vacant to this day.

15 years since they've been built and they have never had one paying tenant. I'm not a buisiness person but I can't help but think that somebody has lost some big money on that project.

SW Plaza (near where I live now) has been dying for years. I think the last time I went there was maybe a few months ago (before the holidays) and it was pretty dead back then, with lots of vacant store fronts with the mall trying to cover them up by putting up big splashy murals. Wife used to work in leasing at Park Meadows so she knows the mall leasing world and she says she can tell how bad it is at SW Plaza just because all the empty spaces mean so much less revenue.

However, it's not JUST the internet. It's also the various 'big box" and discount stores taking business away from smaller retailers. Go to any Home Depot or Lowe's on the weekend and you can hardly find a place to park. Ditto for Wal Mart Supercenter or even King Soopers. And Costco - good grief, don't EVER go to Costco on a Saturday unless you are a glutton for punishment.

So I think retailers are being squeezed from both sides: For small purchases, the Internet (and particularly Amazon prime) are often more viable than a brick-and-mortar store. Think about a typical M - F 9 to 5 worker: Let's say it's Monday and you need some small specialty item that you can't get at the grocery store. You say to yourself "well, maybe I can swing by the ______ store after work" but if the ____ store closes at 5:30 you might not make it before they close. So you say "well, I can go there on Saturday."

Sure you can, but you know what else you can do? Order it on Amazon from your computer on Monday morning and have it delivered to your house on Wednesday, which not only gets you the item you need, it also means one less chore on Saturday. So it's a "win" for you and for Amazon but a "lose" for the specialty store which really can't compete.

For commodity type goods - the things we all need and buy - the big box stores like Super Wal Mart and King Soopers are probably going to have it cheaper, in greater quantity, and unlike the mom-and-pop store that closes at 6:00, you can swing by at 9:30 PM or whenever its convenient to you.

I think the LGS's will be about the last small retailers to fold, though, just because having to have an FFL limits their competition. Wal Mart isn't going to start selling handguns and most of the other "big box" sporting goods stores offer a crappy selection of firearms and no real advantage in price. So LGS's will continue to be the place to go if you want to buy a firearm and take it home the same day. The logistics involved in buying via the internet also favor the LGS over the internet.

Of course "LGS" is a nebulous term. There are small shops and there are big-box "LGS" like 5280 that can buy in bulk and offer lower prices than the mom-and-pop gun shop on the corner.

Agreed. The one thing about retail for me in recent years is that for somethings I'd like to go hold in my hand before I buy and maybe just get out of the house.

I received a couple of gift cards to bass pro and a gift card to Amazon for Christmas. I have been in need of some new hiking boots so the wife and I went out to lunch then to Bass Pro to look. I found a pair that I really liked for $165 plus local taxes. Out of curiosity I checked Amazon before I purchased. Same exact pair $84 plus internet tax. So I used my Amazon gift card and spend $35 instead of using my Bass Pro cards and spending $65.00.

Bass Pro had a decent price on 9mm so I bought that instead.

I also like to purchase gold and silver coins now and then. There are three local shops here that I have purchased from but not one of them has heard of the internet. One shop was WAAAAYYYY over priced and I said, "This is a little high, I could get this significantly less." I realize people hate that and honestly I don't mind spending a couple extra bucks to support local, but not massive increases. The guy scoffed and said where can you find X at that price? And I pulled up several sites and he said, You'll have to pay for shipping and which I told him that wasn't the case because there is often an incentive for free shipping.

A couple years ago I was in the market for a new office chair. Found the one I like on Amazon and it would be a couple weeks. I went to the local Office Depot and found the exact chair for another $100 and I wanted instant gratification so I was willing to pay it. The guy said, all these chairs are for show, we have to order every one of them, it will take a couple weeks. I said, What's the point I can do do the same thing and save over a $100. I want instant gratification. So I saved the money.

[newracer]

Go to Scheel's on Sunday at noon, can hardly find a parking spot and the checkout lines are long. I won't even attempt to go to Costco on the weekends, massive crowds. Some places are struggling, others are thriving.

[hollohas]

I've been steering away from online more recently, especially Amazon. Amazon started with a business model of selling things cheaply. Not anymore, I can almost always buy it less expensive locally. Comparing prices from Target and Amazon for household staples, Target is going to win 95% of the time.

But here's the catch, I still buy those local things "online". I just buy them for local pickup. Even at Sportsman's or Target. The parking lots are empty because many people like me just pickup our orders in the front and are gone in 2 minutes. What an awesome way to shop.

[colorider]

I'm willing to support local businesses when they offer good service. Golden Fly Shop is a great example. I can order fly fishing gear and fly tying materials online for less money, but I go to the local shops because of service. Golden Fly Shop and Blue Quill Anglers in Evergreen are always extremely helpful and ready to answer any questions. Therefore, I spend my money there instead of online even if it costs a little bit more. SERVICE is something that has died out in the local retail scene and it people quit spending money locally because of that.

[00tec]

Good luck buying a refrigerator and getting it local. Even if ordered local, they just drop ship it from Korea or whatever. Excluding the scratch and dent places, of course.

[Great-Kazoo]

They will have to shop in our houses.

Fortunately, not in this area. They have to clear 50 yds before they're even close to the front , or back door.

Go to Scheel's on Sunday at noon, can hardly find a parking spot and the checkout lines are long. I won't even attempt to go to Costco on the weekends, massive crowds. Some places are struggling, others are thriving.

Down here, BBS are jammed on weekends AND open till about 1, except on fridays. Where most of this area is on a 4 day work week. Regarding SW, outside of panic buying primer and ammo hunters. I have yet to see the SW's parking lot ever full, if even 1/4.

I've been steering away from online more recently, especially Amazon. Amazon started with a business model of selling things cheaply. Not anymore, I can almost always buy it less expensive locally. Comparing prices from Target and Amazon for household staples, Target is going to win 95% of the time.

But here's the catch, I still buy those local things "online". I just buy them for local pickup. Even at Sportsman's or Target. The parking lots are empty because many people like me just pickup our orders in the front and are gone in 2 minutes. What an awesome way to shop.

IMO from what the spouse and i have seen in say the last 6-9 months on amz is. They've become more of a clearing house / 3rd party who acts as the middle man for business. Forget prices. Something i could order from wally world, or driveeeeee to the larger towns for say $8..

Is on amz, for $25+ , again thru some 3rd party. One also sees, when looking for a price. Click here to see what different vendors are selling for.

[theGinsue]

As others have said, I'm seeing a LOT more items I'm interested in through Amazon being sold by 3rd party vendors and often at the same price or higher than I can find elsewhere. Amazon is quickly losing my interest.

I've also noticed it's getting more difficult to find some things I want to but locally but can usually find those items online. This sucks when it's an item that I'd prefer to check out in-person before making the decision to actually purchase the item. This is definitely the case for clothing an shoes. My wife wears a ladies medium. She was wearing a ladies 2XL shirt yesterday that fit perfectly. The point is that even within the same manufacturer sizes aren't always accurate. For instance, I just bought a pair of Merrell shoes at Scheels to replace another pair of the exact same style # and size. The ones I bought are too loose but the next 1/2 size down were too tight (so much so that I knew they'd never stretch enough to be comfortable). While I still didn't find exactly what I wanted, if I'd have bought them online I likely would have returned them & requested the smaller size only to find them to tight. When I can buy the item in person at least I know what I'll be going home with for sure (or going home empty handed which is usually the case).

Right now many online retailers like Amazon have decent return policies - but what will happen when they no longer have to compete with local retailers?

This whole thing reminds me of the movie Logan's Run where you'd just order what you wanted from the TV/display in your home (even "companionship").

[Martinjmpr]

For me it's motorcycle stuff, mostly helmets and jackets. Given the wide variation between what manufacturers in different countries consider "medium" "large" and "extra large" I always buy in-person even if it means I have to wait to get it.

I bought a helmet on line ONCE. That was 22 years ago and I'll never do it again.