Aurora shooting?

[68Charger]

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_14179708

somewhat disturbing on several levels... gunshots so routine in Saudi Aurora that nobody reports them, but a horn blaring for 30-40 seconds is enough to call the police?

notice the 1st comment- obvious anti-gun liberal...
as if someone willing to murder is going to be disarmed by gun laws..

[Irving]

He was shot while driving around and pulled into the complex and stopped before dying. That would explain why no gun shots were heard at the apartments. This is a PERFECT segway into the next "How would you handle this situation?" scenario I was going to post today.

[BigBear]

I hate to be morbid but I read this sentence and started laughing:

"The coroner will perform an autopsy to determine how many times the victim was shot, said Friel."

Does it really take a coroner to tell how many times a fellow was shot?

And:

"Friel said police don't know who the man was and are attempting to identify him."

No wallet? No insurance in the car? No cell phone? No fingerprints? etc. It's not that hard to identify people now a days. Think the reporter is trying to sensationalize this? I mean, not to be uncompassionate or insincere or (insert own vocabulary) but thousands (if not millions) of people die every day.

Anyways, suck that it had to happen at all. I remember when two guys could fight, one on one, draw blood (with fists) and then be friends afterwards... Now a days you have to worry about flying bricks, knives, brass knuckles, guns, friends jumping in, etc.

[Irving]

If it was a stolen vehicle it may not have any information. I liked the part about them not thinking it was a suicide? Oh really guys? Multiple gunshots and no weapon present? What tipped you off?

As far as using a corner to check for gun shots, I don't think the cops care to strip him naked on the parking lot and count holes for their report.

[SA Friday]

I hate to be morbid but I read this sentence and started laughing:

"The coroner will perform an autopsy to determine how many times the victim was shot, said Friel."

Does it really take a coroner to tell how many times a fellow was shot?

And:

"Friel said police don't know who the man was and are attempting to identify him."

No wallet? No insurance in the car? No cell phone? No fingerprints? etc. It's not that hard to identify people now a days. Think the reporter is trying to sensationalize this? I mean, not to be uncompassionate or insincere or (insert own vocabulary) but thousands (if not millions) of people die every day.

Anyways, suck that it had to happen at all. I remember when two guys could fight, one on one, draw blood (with fists) and then be friends afterwards... Now a days you have to worry about flying bricks, knives, brass knuckles, guns, friends jumping in, etc.

Yes, it takes a coroner and autopsy to determine how many times someone was shot. I've been to 4 autopsies on shooting victims (about a dozen autopsies total), and it can be a lot harder than you think. Going to court and guessing is a brutal and life changing experience. One autopsy I assisted on during a homicide investigation, the victim had 7 bullet holes in her. 3 rounds fired.

Same thing on identifying the victim. You can suspect a persons ID based on a lot of the stuff you pointed out, but that is not clear irrefutable proof of ID. Until you have that, you don't have a positive ID. Dental records, finger prints, and next of kin ID are the preferred methods.

[Irving]

Yes, it takes a coroner and autopsy to determine how many times someone was shot. I've been to 4 autopsies on shooting victims (about a dozen autopsies total), and it can be a lot harder than you think. Going to court and guessing is a brutal and life changing experience. One autopsy I assisted on during a homicide investigation, the victim had 7 bullet holes in her. 3 rounds fired.

Same thing on identifying the victim. You can suspect a persons ID based on a lot of the stuff you pointed out, but that is not clear irrefutable proof of ID. Until you have that, you don't have a positive ID. Dental records, finger prints, and next of kin ID are the preferred methods.

Did you wear cool sun glasses like Horatio San when you investigated cases? Yes or no?

[BigBear]

Good points SAFriday. Can you expound on the bullet identifying though... I'm assuming we all know entrance and exit wounds. Are there cases of a bullet fragmenting and then create several exit holes versus the one entrance, etc and that is why it takes an autopsy? Just curious.

The ID I understand, I just thought it was a funny statement.

[SA Friday]

Someone gets shot at close range, they defend themselves. It's a completely unpredictable and dynamic situation. Some people run, some throw their hands and arms up in front of their head and face, some lock up and don't move, etc, etc. In the case I pointed out earlier, she threw her arm up in front of her face. The guy who shot her was using an M9 with nato ball ammo. She had four holes in her right arm and both upper arm bones were shattered. She had two holes in her face, and one hole in her upper left thorasic cavity; 7 holes. Only during the autopsy could we reconstruct the shooting sequence and determine the various bullet tracks. The four holes in the arm were through-in-throughs, both then entering her face and lodging in her brain; one in the cerebrial cortex another in the cerebellum. The third round to the upper chest was a entry only, no exit, only one hole. The arm wounds were defensive wounds.

We sent the info to the investigators where the crime was committed (a foreign country) and they used the info to reconstruct the shooting.

Entry and exit holes leave different identifying marks on the human body. Only during the autopsy can these marks be identified; charring around the entry holes, powder stippling, conical beveling on bone, 'christmas tree' epidermal tears on grazing wounds, starlight patterns on contact wounds, etc etc. Without this info, scene recreation is not possible. Without scene recreation, you are guessing as to what happened.

My favorite is the dead guy with no apparent wounds and dead as a hammer. Some bullet wounds can be impossible to find from an external exam at the scene. You get into the body and it becomes readily apparent where the bullet started and ended. A 22lr pistol in the mouth with no exit wound looks down right perplexing till you crack the head open. The human body has lots of other openings too.

[BigBear]

Wow... very interesting. Gotta love forensics and the such eh? I would've never thought about being shot through the arm and into the head, that would count as a single round with multiple holes. Ok, I'm done being morbid. This stuff is interesting to me.

[Irving]

Wait so those 9mm rounds didn't just bounce off the lady, but went through her arms, then all the way into her brain? Have you posted that story on ARF.com yet?