Plug-in hybrids?

[Martinjmpr]

Who knows about plug-in hybrid vehicles? My wife's CR-V is getting a little long in the tooth and she has expressed a desire to get a PHEV.

I like the idea of a PHEV because most of our trips are strictly around town (Pueblo) so most of our driving would likely be on electricity. But I still want the option of taking longer trips so I want the hybrid with a gas engine.

Definitely want an SUV/Crossover as opposed to a car. We do use the cargo area of her SUV and that will continue.

She likes the Rav-4 hybrid and as someone who's owned Toyotas before I'm happy with them.

Any others I should be looking at? We don't need a luxury vehicle, just two 60-something people with grandkids.

Thanks for any recommendations!

[eddiememphis]

Toyota has embraced the hybrid.

The reliability of them is almost to traditional Toyota levels.

While I doubt you'll see 300k miles out of one like you would a gas powered Camry, since you are (or soon to be, pending retirement) a little old lady that only drives to church on Sundays, it may work well for you.

Does your new house have a charging station?

[Jer]

There will be some here who will attack me because of some weird political agenda and how they associate that with the car you drive. If you're able to disassociate your politics from what you drive and listen to this advice, you'll likely thank yourself after only a brief period of ownership:

Get a Tesla Model Y Long Range AWD.

There's a reason it's now the #1 selling vehicle in the world. It's really that good. It used to be that they were far cheaper to operate over the years but the up-front cost was higher. Now that (thanks largely to vertical integration and Tesla's relentless mission to bring everything in-house) they're cheaper on the front end AND less expensive to own and operate the financial consideration is a no brainer. With the $7,500 federal tax credit, the $5,000 state of Colorado tax credit and another $6,000 trade-in credit (potentially) it's crazy how low that entry point is on a Model Y these days.

We've owned nothing but Teslas for over 6 years now. The only thing I regret is not doing it sooner. Most of what you think you know about them is either outdated or was never correct in the first place. This idea that you can own an EV for around town but need an ICE car for road trips is also long outdated info. We thought the same thing but quickly discovered that, even 6 years ago, the Supercharger network meant you can drive just about anywhere you want to go. With it's growth since then, range anxiety is basically nonexistent or at least WAY over hyped. In fact, road tripping has become one of our favorite hobbies now. We've put well over 100k on our Teslas and whenever we have even a three-day-weekend we're on the road. We took a trip down to Texas for the solar eclipse at the start of summer and have another road trip to Toronto coming up in a few weeks. The Tesla Model Y LR AWD is the best road trip vehicle I've ever owned which is something I never saw myself saying before we owned them.

For me, we haven't been to a gas station in half a dozen years. People want to argue the environmental impacts of EVs and I genuinely don't care. There's enough info out there proving they're a net positive but it's not my reason for buying. I'm not a tree hugger and we don't have kids so I don't much care. It's simply the best vehicle I've ever driven in a long line of fancy, high-end cars. For me though, the fact that our entire household's energy needs are met domestically is a big deal. That's local energy production and local jobs. I don't send a single dime to foreign interests in Russia or the Middle East which is a big deal to me. I also drive cars that are 100% made in the USA by Americans employed by a company based in the USA who is pushing the envelope for innovation in the automotive industry. To me, these things all matter.

I say all of this as someone who owned a Toyota Hybrid (Camry) that we loved. It was great tech for the time but EVs have got so good that we no longer need that bridge. The undeniable downside to hybrids is the complexity that's added. Complexity = more things that can go wrong. Sure, an outfit like Toyota can do hybrid well to minimize this but it's still a far less reliable technology with (far) more maintenance and cost associated with keeping it on the road. If you're in the market for a midsize SUV you'd be doing yourself a disservice by not going and driving a Model Y for as long of a period as you can. The more you drive them, the more you appreciate all of the things they do better than what you're used to. We haven't been to a gas station in 6 years and every morning we wake up to a "full tank" of over 300 miles that cost roughly 10% of what the same miles in gasoline would have cost. That alone is worth the price of admission. They're also the safest car you can own (by a LONG ways) and also one of the most fun things you can own.

I know you're a ways away in Pueblo but I'm happy to let you drive ours. The same offer is extended to anyone else reading this who's closer to our neck of the woods. If you do so with an open mind I have no doubt you'll come around just like we did. They're really that good and much of the negative BS you hear parroted by those who have never owned one is just that... BS.

[Sawin]

Nope - I will not be willing to support going Full EV until the grid and logistics surrounding battery charging/swapping is solved... that appears to still be many years out. Hybrid tech where you extend the range and supplement performance seems like the "happy medium" we should be focused on for the time being... make the hybrids more reliable if that's the point of failure today... but that's just my opinion.

Now having an EV as a weekend fun car/toy to drive in the mountains, absolutely that would be great, perhaps even a daily-driver/commuter to and from Denver from the suburbs...(heaven forbid i ever have to do that again) but i won't be giving up the ability to drive across the country and through small towns that don't have charging stations.

I guess boiled down to it, If EV's require you to "stay where the people are", then I don't want one.

[Jer]

Nope - I will not be willing to support going Full EV until the grid and logistics surrounding battery charging/swapping is solved... that appears to still be many years out. Hybrid tech where you extend the range and supplement performance seems like the "happy medium" we should be focused on for the time being... make the hybrids more reliable if that's the point of failure today... but that's just my opinion.

Now having an EV as a weekend fun car/toy to drive in the mountains, absolutely that would be great, perhaps even a daily-driver/commuter to and from Denver from the suburbs...(heaven forbid i ever have to do that again) but i won't be giving up the ability to drive across the country and through small towns that don't have charging stations.

I guess boiled down to it, If EV's require you to "stay where the people are", then I don't want one.

Right on queue, someone close-minded that has no idea that what they're saying is 100% wrong even when following up a post by someone who does. These are the exact people who drain my will to live because they speak as if they know what they're talking about which convinces those who actually want to learn. You get an echo chamber like this forum where there's a handful of people who parrot this BS and before you know it.. it's just "the way" no matter who accurate it is.

[Sawin]

way to make it personal... I wasn't and don't.
But you're welcome to help me learn why i'm wrong if you want to.

[Jer]

way to make it personal... I wasn't and don't.
But you're welcome to help me learn why i'm wrong if you want to.

If you see my stating of the obvious (that you present incorrect information factually) as enough of a negative to be deemed a "personal attack" then why not change the behavior? That's what you have control over... not my reaction.

You can't say that your post was conversational and meant from a place of wanting to learn. You spouted a bunch of untrue nonsense about EVs as if it was fact because you heard it once. You then closed off any possibility of learning information that might be counter to your staunch stance on not being interested and not even offering up the OP with options, as requested. Change is hard for those stuck in their ways. It's also a foolish way to go through life thinking things can't possibly get better during the time of the most rapidly advancing change humanity has ever known.

I tried to open a thread years ago on this forum to happily answer any genuine EV questions that anyone had and wanted actual first hand info & answers. That quickly devolved into some weird political debate about stuff that was untrue from people who presented it as if it was fact. This quickly became a very contentious place where not much in the way good faith knowledge transfer could happen. Your post just reminded me of that, fairly or not.

It's bad when I can't even recommend a midsize SUV (the #1 selling car in the world BTW) in a thread asking for midsize SUV recommendations w/o someone instantly replying with fake news presented as if it was fact... exactly as I predicted in my post.

I'm not a Tesla fanboi. I had one of the first F150 Lightning reservations proving me wanting whatever is the best available for our needs. (That ended up not being the case for a myriad of reasons that we won't get into in this thread) Ultimately I want the best item at the best price that meets our needs. I have zero brand affiliation or loyalty beyond the last product I bought based off of that criteria. It just turns out that Tesla still is the best option even though I'm anxiously awaiting something better to become available.

I'm not some weird environmentalist or Democrat trying to push an agenda. Anyone who thinks any of that is my motivation doesn't know me as that couldn't be further from the truth. I've had people PM me on this forum from that thread because they wanted to know more about EVs and Tesla specifically because of how toxic that thread had become. It became the opposite of what I created the thread in the first place.

Much (if not all) of what you've heard that's negative about Tesla from the vocal minority is false. Tesla EVs are not perfect, mind you. but they're far closer to automotive perfection than most consumers realize. They're also getting better at a pace that makes even the accurate negativity you've heard outdated.

I only post here to say that you'd be doing yourself a disservice as a consumer if you didn't examine all of the options with an open mind to determine what is best for your unique needs. Seek independent sources to make sure what you're getting is correct information. This will be challenging when it comes to Tesla. They have had a $0 marketing budget so this is why you hear negativity so frequently that it starts to seem accurate. Everything inflammatory you see with Tesla in the headline is done purely for clickbait. It's also much of people's exposure to the brand, sadly.

If your goal is to gain genuine, unbiased information your goal should be to cut out all of this agenda-driven BS and go straight to the the source: owners. Talk to the actual owners of the cars as they will tell you how it really is. If you sit down to have a conversation with me, I'm an open book. I'll answer all of your questions honestly and I'm quick to bring up the negatives that are actually important to ownership (which you don't get a lot of here since I'm frequently defending unfair and/or inaccurate info that only makes me seem like a Tesla apologist). I've done this for countless people over the years to zero personal gain because I know how hard it was for me to find unbiased information on the topic 8 years or so ago. I'm happy to pave the way for others who approach the topic with a genuine interest in learning.

What I don't have time for is close minded people who are confident in their ignorance enough to volunteer inaccurate information any chance they get and doing so in a way that makes others think they are right.

[HBARleatherneck]

the saying is "right on CUE".

And you ALWAYS make it personal. It seems like Sawin mad a good post. Hybrids are the happy place for most people's needs. Maybe electric only works for you. That good too. I think you are old enough not to get bent out of shape because people dont necessarily like what you like. All you need to do is present the unbiased, noninflammatory data or experience you have. However, you have been consistently unable to do that.

[Sawin]

that is all.

[funkymonkey1111]

It's bad when I can't even recommend a midsize SUV (the #1 selling car in the world BTW) in a thread asking for midsize SUV recommendations w/o someone instantly replying with fake news presented as if it was fact... exactly as I predicted in my post.

Is there a big market for these overseas? I see the stats that say it was the #1 sold car in the world, but it's not even the #1 sold car in the U.S.