Not to sidetrack this thread to much, but Jim just reminded me that I have had the right to continue to bear arms for 22 years now because I just barely managed to restrain myslef from bludgeoning Jonathan Arthur Ciener with one of his non-functional 30 round pre-ban magazines at a gun show in Hialeah, Florida. Whatever anyone's experiences had been with him over the phone or early email in the dark days of the AWB, he was far more odious in person. I am a fairly even-keeled guy and can only think of two times I've ever totally lost my cool. He was the first. I danced a jig of joy the day he was arrested for fraud.