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Not to long ago the story was of a Lawyer handcuffed and disarmed. Also by a female officer.
Thinking this is a duplicate story..just sensationalize.
I guess it is completely unlikely that a person that just broke into a construction site then pretends to be a law-abiding citizen when first officer arrives on scene. Several officers have been shot and killed because of complacency and too much trust into people they have never met. It's not like the guy was walking down the street minding his own business in the middle of the day, it is the middle of the night (where the more violent and "in-progress" calls usually take place) and the building had just been burglarized. She has no idea who this person is other than what he was saying (people never lie to the police. Because he was out there and there was a crime that just occurred she can reasonably do a pat-down without having knowledge of the CCW.
This also reminds me of Big Bear's story a little. The facts, a crime occured, he legally drew his weapon, the police arrived and detained everyone until things can get figured out. It's called a rapidly evolving situation and sometimes good guys get handcuffed for a few moments.
Eerily coincidence,
http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18963
My criteria for judging officer actions is usually: if I did it, would I be sitting in jail right now?
Yes, I understand officers are often held to ridiculous standards on certain things, far beyond those of your average citizen. I think those things should be scaled back a bit, at least.
I think its absolutely ridiculous to give cops leeways that average citizens do not (or put them under ridiculous rules that are far and away unreasonable for an average citizen to abide by, for that matter.) I cannot go around disarming legally armed citizens because I want to "feel safe." Neither should this cop. If a legally armed person is an asshole to me, guess what? I do my job as it relates to them and get them on their way. I don't draw down on them and then say "You're acting aggressively so I need to have your gun."
I just see this as common sense. Cops are not some saintly class above common mortals. They are people like you and me, and to my mind if the rules are good enough for me, they are good enough for cops.
stupid cop is stupid.
end of story.
Was her detainment of the individual legal? yes
Was her temporary disarming of him legal? yes
Was her showing up to a crime scene of a break-in alone tactically sound? no, but not her call. She was dispatched, and the article doesn't say just how much the owner looked around before he called 911 or described to the cops.
Was he arrested? nope.
Did he get his gun back? yep.
He was inconvienced for a while. He should have expected it, IMO. I do when I carry and I will so until there is a law that states a sworn LE official cannot do so (good luck with getting something like that passed).
I would have handled it a little differently, but not much. I wouldn't have cuffed him, but his gun would have been locked in my car's trunk till we were done there or I could confirm he was legit. Confirmation would have happened after I had secured the scene. He is part of the scene to secure until proven otherwise.
LE officials are not common citizens, they are wardens of the state. Like it or not, they do have additional powers and responsibilities that the common citizen does not. Name one country/government on the planet that this is different? If you want it so, expect anarchy shortly after all the LE officials get killed. Affability and complaciency(sp, but you get it) in a cop usually ends up with the cop quiting after getting seriously messed up or a dead cop.
I'm still trying to figure out why the first four cops didn't at the very least terry frisk and disarm... Oh ya, affability and complaciency. I would have wanted her as my partner over the other chuckle heads. I liked going home at the end of the day. Because four other cops before her did it wrong doesn't mean she didn't do it right.
Mom's comin' 'round to put it back the way it ought to be.
Anyone that thinks war is good is ignorant. Anyone that thinks war isn't needed is stupid.
Well Said SA
The US, any time before about the early-mid 20th century, had no such rules having sheriffs, police officers (who reallly didn't exist until the late 19th century,) etc as having special powers above and beyond a normal citizen. A Texas Ranger, or sheriff (even in the civilized east) could not disarm a citizen without obvious justification or really take any action a private citizen could not. Legally, they had the exact same powers as any private citizen - they just dedicated themselves full-time to justice system.
Two things from that:
1) Somehow, the sheriffs and so forth managed to not all be killed. I guess they were all high speed low drag operators back then?
2) Murder rates were actually higher, per capita, back then, leading me to believe that they were in more, not less, danger than your average cop now. There were also far fewer sheriffs, officers, etc, per capita, meaning that 1 sheriff had a much larger workload than your average Denver (or Dallas, or New York...) police officer.
I know scare tactics are all the rage today but this:
Is just ridiculous. You have no reason to state such - and its a blanant appeal to emotion.LE officials are not common citizens, they are wardens of the state. Like it or not, they do have additional powers and responsibilities that the common citizen does not. Name one country/government on the planet that this is different? If you want it so, expect anarchy shortly after all the LE officials get killed. Affability and complaciency(sp, but you get it) in a cop usually ends up with the cop quiting after getting seriously messed up or a dead cop.
Eh, she did her job. No harm, no foul. Although some of the processes were a little... untradiational?
I've had a smallish woman pull me over before. I also wonder why they work alone. If I was agressive, a criminal, whatever, she would've been dead in one punch. There was no way she would've been able to take me to the ground without using a taser or something and she was close enough several times for me to work quick.
SAFriday, how is training done for the average street cop? Do they have awareness clases and such?
Just as a disclaimer, this is not meant as an argument, but merely as an expression of my opinion and food for your thought...Originally Posted by SA Friday
It's a sad day when disarming and handcuffing a law abiding citizen is accepted.
You argue that a less powerful law enforcement (read: government) would result in anarchy?
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
The first "police department" wasn't established in the united states until 1838 in Boston, MA. Somehow we survived 55 years without any police (although there were still sheriff's and *gasp* a citizen driven "Night Watch"), and even then, people did not respect the police forces, which were small, technologically primitive, and often laden with corruption.
the "police" as you and I know it didn't come into being until the 1920s, where it was "professionalized" by August Vollomer in Berkeley California, who promoted advances in technology and training.
So you're looking at a good 137 years (not counting the time before the revolution) where America got along just fine without modern law enforcement.
How did it do it?
In my humble opinion, a citizen driven law-enforcement system is a much better way to go.
It puts the welfare of society into the hands of those participating in it, and gives a much greater incentive to know your rights, know the law, and receive proper armed training (you know that "well-regulated militia the constitution talks about? It was supposed to be us!)
I guarantee you if every law-abiding citizen was walking around open-carry, criminals would think twice before trying to rob a store, steal a car, mug a person, or rape a women.
Somehow there's a bit more of a mental check when you know every crime you'd commit is going to put you face-to-face with a gun.
Now don't get me wrong, I respect LEO and what they do, but I think it was a solution looking for a problem, and I think government controls like LEO are partially to blame for many of society's current problems.
Once you take the law out of the citizen's hands, they lose incentive to know the law, to defend the law, and to stand for the law.
Why? Because the police know the law. the police will protect you. Or at least, so the average citizen thinks.
But I can think of a thousand stories where the police are just a minute to late.
Or where the officer overstepped his bounds, or was ignorant of the law himself.
I don't doubt that many police officer's enter the force with the best of intentions, but as our former president Abraham Lincoln once said,
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
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